Joe Rogan Experience guest Dr. Robert Epstein bounced on his chair and told host Joe Rogan he was going “into meltdown mode” after the comedian accidentally disproved his claim that Google was “suppressing” Swiss-owned encrypted email service Protonmail with a simple search.
The psychologist shared his belief that technology had been used to manipulate public opinion so much that there hasn’t been a “free and fair election” in the US since 2012. Epstein’s work at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology (AIBRT) focused on how Google, in particular, manipulated and censored results on its search engine to influence voters.
To demonstrate his point, Epstein said that in one case “Google tried to shut down Protonmail” because it was “cutting in a little on their Gmail business.” Epstein said that the Silicon Valley giant was “brutal in suppressing any mention of Protonmail anywhere” in search results, suggestions and answer boxes.
After explaining how the service must have been flagged to search algorithms to blacklist it, Rogan suggested his producer Jamie Vernon search Google to see if it was being suppressed in search.
“Well, let’s look for it right now. Jamie, do me a favor please and pull up Google,” Rogan said.
Epstein didn’t interrupt the experiment until Protonmail appeared top of search, with all the various domain links, Rogan commentated: “Okay, right away, it shows ProtonMail. And then below that, it shows Proton Account, Sign In. You use the Proton VPN. So, how is it suppressing? This is not suppressing at all.”
The guest was not happy, growing increasingly agitated in his seat before he said: “Okay, now this is where my staff has warned me, don’t be condescending to Joe Rogan.”
The host replied: “How is it condescending if you’re, I’m just asking a question, you can just give me an answer.”
“No, I know I could, but I was about to be condescending,” Epstein said.
Confused Rogan asked: “Well, why would you be condescending if this is the question? This is the question.”
“For goodness sake,” the guest said.
“Protonmail, do the Google search, and then right away, the first thing is Protonmail,” Rogan observed.
Epstein said: “Okay, but you’re pushing me back into meltdown mode. I’ll tell you why. Because what account is this?
“Jamie’s account,” Rogan replied.
Epstein continued: “It’s Jamie’s account. Okay. If you actually want to know whether they’re suppressing Protonmail, you have to look over the shoulders of a large representative sample of people, you can’t just look at Jamie’s account.”
Rogan responded: “So you think that Jamie’s account is curated to not hide proton mail?”
“Well of course it’s curated!” Epstein said.
“Well, technically this is not my account,” Vernon added.
While the experiment didn’t work out for Epstein, there was an incident in November 2015 when Protonmail founder Andy Yen did report that the service was no longer appearing in Google search results for related search queries – like “secure email” or “encrypted email” – but by early 2016 Google informed the company that it had “fixed” the problem.
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