Jeff Pharris knows his fond memories of shooting guns as a kid with his father are out of step with the stories he hears on a regular basis. He even stored his gun in his high school locker so he could go hunting after school.
Today, he said, he reads about someone's nephew shot in a drive-by, a woman living in fear of her domestic abuser, a homeowner who wants to protect his family.
"That's an eye-opener for me," he said. His experience with guns is so different.
"I would say, by and large, we want to help non-gun owners or anti-gun owners understand that it can be safe," Pharris said. "I have a high respect for my firearms."
Pharris knows it's a complicated topic. On Thursday, after taking part in the largest gun violence prevention event in Wisconsin's history, he rushed out to shoot clay pigeons at a gun range.
Pharris was one of three panelists who took part in a conversation on what it's like to be a responsible gun owner at a point of reckoning over gun violence in America. The panel was one of many at the 2024 Emergency Gun Violence Summit at the Baird Center in downtown Milwaukee. The event was organized by Forward Latino and the 80% Coalition, with the idea of reducing gun violence through frank discussions with survivors, national experts, faith-based leaders, elected officials and advocates.
Gov. Tony Evers spoke at the event, which was also attended by members of the Biden Administration.
Pharris, a firearms training counselor, joined Jieire Vance, a former police officer and trainer, and William Olivier, a community impact pastor at Bridge Builders Milwaukee, for a panel on gun ownership moderated by Journal Sentinel reporter John Diedrich, lead investigator of "Behind the Gun," a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel series on the nuances of gun ownership and gun deaths in Wisconsin.
More: Behind the Gun: Read the award-winning Journal Sentinel project about firearms deaths in Wisconsin
The panelists were all gun enthusiasts who emphasized the need for training, red flag laws, background checks and ending second-hand gun sale loopholes. They also acknowledged those topics have sticking points.
Should Wisconsin have stronger background check laws?
Although Wisconsin follows federal guidelines on firearms dealers initiating background checks on a prospective gun purchaser, either to the Wisconsin Department of Justice or the Federal Bureau Investigation (depending on the gun type), there is a loophole: gun sales in Wisconsin can happen at shows or other second-hand places without a background check.
The panelists, for the most part, agreed that Wisconsin needs stronger background checks. Vance said it was the No. 1 prevention method outside of education and training.
"If you committed a violent crime, you've been in prison, and you come out of prison, you can just go to Joe Schmo at the gas station and buy a firearm, and don't have to have it registered to you or anything else. That is a problem," Vance said. "It's absolutely a great idea to put something in place that would allow everyone to have to have some type of criminal background check before accessing firearms."
Olivier agreed.
But background checks may lead to unintended consequences. There's a practice, for example, of friends or family taking away someone's guns temporarily while they're experiencing a crisis. But in a state with 100% background checks, a transfer would need to be initiated.
"It can be done, but in exigent circumstances, it could slow down the process," Diedrich said.
How often are guns actually used in self-defense?
The hope is that one never has to use a gun in self-defense, Vance said. Vance views owning a gun as a protective tool like any other in his toolkit.
Using guns in self-defense is, statistically, rare, although how rare is harder to pin down. None of the panelists has ever used a firearm in self-defense, but for Vance, even if there's a one-in-a-million chance it can happen, that still can cause unease.
"It's almost never going to happen, but if it could happen in your head, that's your frame of mind," Vance said.
What about red flag laws?
Frank Cimorelli, a Milwaukee native, sat in the audience listening to the panelists talk about safe storage practices and training, but he had a more pressing question for the panelists: How do we make sure guns don't get into our house?
Cimorelli shared that his son, who struggled with mental illness, periodically spiraled and sometimes would experience a downward spiral so badly he had seizures. But once he turned 18, "His fate was sealed." His son was able to buy a gun and would, eventually, die by suicide.
"My son had 10 years of documented mental health issues, including threatening suicide, but when he was of age, the state was more than happy to give him a gun," Cimorelli said.
Wisconsin doesn't have red flag laws, which would allow law enforcement to temporarily remove guns from people in imminent danger of harming themselves or others. But the panelists agreed the state should change this. For Olivier, this is a simple equation: If you're emotionally unstable, you shouldn't be able to access a gun, "end of discussion."
But this gets complicated quickly, Vance said.
"Who authorizes this person to tell me I'm more unstable than this other person?" Vance said. "How do you set a criteria on what is unstable? That doesn't mean I don't agree. It just means there's a lot more we need to figure out before we move forward with it."
Red Flag Laws may open the door to more stigma surrounding getting treatment for a mental health condition, Pharris said. There's fear that if someone pursues treatment for a mental health condition, that will signal to authorities they shouldn't have a gun.
"They just don't get any mental health treatment because their fear is, 'They're going to take my guns, and if they can take my guns, they'll take my kids," Pharris said.
Rep. Deborah Andraca, D-Whitefish Bay, who was in the audience, brought up the bill she is hoping to pass next session. Andraca co-chairs the legislative gun safety coalition alongside Sen. LaTonya Johnson, D-Milwaukee, and Rep. Shelia Stubbs, D-Madison. She said it would allow for a red flag law, but make sure the decision was made by police — with evidence brought to a judge — and not a mental health worker.
One aspect of the panel discussion involved the fact that women are purchasing firearms at a higher rate, as a means of self-defense, especially in cases of domestic violence. Andraca believes that the onus should be on the state to remove guns from people who are a risk to themselves and others.
"I do think, with so many guns in so many places and so many women running to get guns because they're afraid for their lives, I think it's time for us, this next legislative session, to have meaningful conversations and pass something that the majority can agree with," Andraca said.
Natalie Eilbert covers mental health issues for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. She welcomes story tips and feedback. You can reach her at neilbert@gannett.com or view her X (Twitter) profile at @natalie_eilbert .
This article originally appeared on Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Gun violence solutions coming from gun owners? There's common ground, but no easy answers.
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