NORTH DAKOTA ( KXNET ) — For episode 22 of The Voice of the People, Nicholas Quallich spoke with Sgt. Jonathan Hoefer with the North Dakota Army National Guard. Sgt. Hoefer talked about his time in the military, the biggest changes in recruiting, the qualities in a candidate he and other recruiters are looking for, and more.

Here is a transcript of the podcast.

Nicholas Quallich: Hello and thank you for joining us for the Voice of the People podcast here on KXNET.com. I’m Nicholas Quallich and today we are talking about serving our country. And someone that knows all about that is Sergeant First Class Jonathan Hoefer. Sergeant Hoefer is with the North Dakota Army National Guard. Sergeant, thank you so much for being here.

Sgt. Jonathan Hoefer: Thank you. I’m glad to be here. I appreciate the invite. I always like to talk about what we do and just get the information out there.

Quallich: So Sergeant, take us back a little bit. Tell us why you decided to serve in our military.

Hoefer: Well, I’ve been in for 25 years now. It’s been an important part of my life. When I was younger, I kind of had those moments where, you know, you’re going to school, you’re doing your own thing. But sometimes we’re just spinning our wheels, like maybe moments of, or lack of progress, you know, just not wanting to be stagnant. And I had some interests, had a friend join and decided to give it a shot too, had been in for a little bit realizing that I mean I love the structure being able to see like hey I can get to that next level too or even just having specific examples where you don’t even need to look for a mentor like you’re you’re giving them they’re they’re prevalent everywhere so and then now having been in for a significant amount of time. It was about 10 years after I’d been in as a medic, had an opportunity to come into the recruiting world and been doing it since for both the medical positions, recruiting for the army and national guard. And now it’s pretty much mostly high school students and college students that, you know, they’re just looking for more to build their resume. And, yeah, just love it. That’s why I keep doing it.

Quallich: Now, do you serve, firstly, with the Army or did you serve just right out of the gate with the National Guard?

Hoefer: So, I grew up close to the Grand Forks and some of the units that are, you know, found within the states, the closest medical unit was in Fargo and that was on the reserve side. So, hindsight, if I had actually paid attention as a younger person and maybe listened to and did all the homework that I maybe should have done, probably the best possible starting point for any young person, because that’s what they know and that’s what they see is within the Guard. I mean, this is the uniform that anybody in the Bismarck-Mandan region is going to see. It’s the Army National Guard uniform. There’s always that back and forth between all the different service branches like, who’s better? I mean, I’m a big believer and it’s pretty much the same. It’s just what can be tailored to what your specific things, what do you want to do with it? But yeah, I’ve been in the guard. It’s probably been my favorite position that I’ve had. And it’s just because people see it, people, that’s what they know. You know, you can join any of the service branches and then be halfway around the world and nobody ever gets to see what you do. So the Guard’s probably the best place for anybody to start and then just build their career from whatever they do from there.

Quallich: First, I should mention, thank you so much for your service and all that you and your colleagues have done. We really appreciate it. So now you’ve seen in regards to just how things function there at the National Guard?

Hoefer: So some of the biggest things is, I mean, people are generally the same, but I think you deal with different ideologies, different culture, different backgrounds, and predominantly, again, like here in North Dakota, there’s a lot of patriotic people. There’s a lot of people that they still have a built-in work ethic. And whenever we talk to young people, I always try to point out, even if they’re not realizing it, if you go somewhere else and you tell them you’re from North Dakota, they’re probably going to expect something out of you. They know that you’re worth it. You know, they might put you in charge even if you don’t feel like you know what you’re doing. But I think it’s, it is a different mindset where there needs to be much more validation or there’s, there’s worry about making decisions and trying to like not make mistakes. Whereas, I mean, I don’t think I worried about me. Maybe I did when I was younger, but I think a lot less because I mean, I grew up on a farm and ranch, much like so many people in North Dakota, at least doing some of that stuff gave me some ability to say, yeah, I’m pretty confident. And then you learn from mistakes. So I think in this day and age where there needs to be a lot of a lot more reassurance for a lot of young people because they haven’t done so many things so far in their young lives. So they need to, I don’t know, maybe encouragement to fly the coop, you know, get out of the nest and go, go make mistakes.

Quallich: If you were to describe to me the ideal recruit, what sort of description would I expect to hear from you?

Hoefer: It’s funny you ask that because I try to get across to people, all these young people and they’re coming into their own, but as long as they exhibit potential, that is the bottom line. As long as somebody, I mean, I’m looking constantly, but I know that so many industry partners and schools and I mean pretty much anybody who needs somebody to come their way to employ or train or educate, if they’re exhibiting that potential and showing that they have any kind of motivation at all to better themselves and they want to come be part of whatever business or industry, I mean, that’s what we’re looking for is, can we then help that person to build more in their resume, to educate themselves? Cause it’s kind of like if we could be the starter for everybody so that they can build into whatever they want to be. And granted, you know, their minds might change. Like, hey, I was thinking going to school first, but now I realize I love this and I know I can have a career doing it. I’m going to just go. So it starts there. And then we always go through the application process and the, you know, proving that they can get, become qualified. And I think through that vetting process, I mean, it’s a pretty big deal when somebody could show that they’re educationally qualified, that they’re pretty healthy, that there can be legally squeaky clean, and even so that they can actually maybe get a secret clearance or even top secret clearance. I mean, it’s possible that somebody who’s a 17 year old, 18, like how can you have a better resume at that age if you didn’t go through all these steps. Because even if they didn’t choose to move forward, they could still prove to anybody who was asking that they were worth it. It’s kind of a big deal. At least I think it is.

Quallich: Absolutely. Is there any time you would tell someone, maybe this isn’t for you?

Hoefer: If they’re going through some struggles, like if maybe if they’ve actually had started, I mean, we do have people, they’ll get hired, they’ll enlist, or they even get started to go through the process of applying. And if there’s too many things going on in their life that where it seems like, hey if you already were struggling, and now you’re adding more to your plate, maybe we need to maybe table that and wait just a bit. Maybe in those cases, I mean, I’ve come across a few over the time, but it’s not a common thing because most of the time, something like this, I mean, I would say the military ID that you carry around that’s part of your uniform, that’s your ticket to ride. I mean, like, anywhere, for anything. It’s maybe your foot in the door, at least. And then the uniform you wear, it’s kind of, not really, but it’s kind of like a shield that protects you or at least prepares you for so many things that you’re going to encounter in life. So when they are dealing with some stress or strife in whatever’s going on in their life, they have people and then also structure built in place to help deal with those things. So most of the time I would say, you know, hey, you’re not going to know unless you give it a shot. But then, you know, occasionally it does happen where maybe the timing isn’t right for them. But I would think that, I mean, we’ve dealt with anybody from being, hey, they were up to 100 pounds overweight and they worked really hard to get through it, or they dealt with some medical issue and then they got past it, or even a legal issue and then they got through it and it was deemed okay. Everything was good to go, they got past that, or even education. So I think from so many aspects, it’s able to be gotten through. Like, they’ll get through the woods and then finally come out the end, and it just comes down to their motivation. Do they want to make this happen? And there’s always people in place to help them. They ask for help.

Quallich: Yeah, you talked about timing and you talked about education. Of course, it’s no secret that there are people out there that will apply because they know this is a great opportunity for education benefits. So how much stress do you put on the fact that, yes, we have great opportunities for you after and while you’re serving your time, but also with the realization that you could be called to go really anywhere?

Hoefer: Sure, that is always a concern for pretty much any person that mentions education at all. And we deal with enough people that say, nope, I’m done with traditional education. And that’s why maybe the Army’s style of learning is the best because you can still get college credit for learning at the Army institutions because they’re accredited institutions as well. And that’s why they can have a transfer transcript. But those that do mention education, we always want to make sure that they understand, first we understand where they’re at. You know, should they be toward the end of their education? Maybe want to go into their, get their master’s that we can still support? Or if they’re at the very beginning, to understand exactly what pieces will they take advantage of? You know, do they need student loan repayment more so instead of, hey, I’d rather get a bonus and have a bunch of money on the front side so I can fund me starting or the tuition assistance that everybody can start with. You know, when they put on a uniform, they know that that’s something that we’re gonna provide for them. So that when each and every person that says, hey, I’m focused on this, I can think of a person, I actually sent him a message today saying, hey, we need to get your stuff done so we can, before the fall semester starts, have his tuition assistance requested and ready so we can link them up with all of the military liaisons on campus. So we try to make sure that we’re involved and that we can be that person should they need it. Some people need their hand held all the way up to the next step. And then some people, once they get everything good to go, they just need to know who to talk to at the next level. And it’s just such an important piece that they realize we support them becoming more. I always just explain it as a mutual beneficial relationship. So when they come in wanting to become better, that’s really all they need because the structure is in place. We expect them to go through all the things that they’re going to do, become a bigger, better, stronger person, and then also because they become that, we support them and help them be that, and then we get to maintain the capability and strength that we’d have.

Quallich: When it comes to conflict or potential conflict, can you give us a ratio or some sort of an increase, an idea of it anyway, as far as how much recruitment numbers go up?

Hoefer: I don’t know if I’d be able to definitely give a ratio. Sure. You think that there’s always people that have the mindset saying, I wouldn’t mind wearing a uniform, but I don’t want to go fight bad guys. But I always make sure that they do understand that there’s so many positions within not just the Army National Guard, but the military in general that really have nothing to do with combat. So there can be conflict throughout the world in various different reasons, various different countries, places, regions in the world, but you might never be in a role that does that because there’s combat support, there’s service support. I mean, I joined as a medic. That’s very much a humanitarian role. Having been able to go into other countries and go on humanitarian missions, there’s always the, you know, that fighting tip of the spear, right? But there’s a huge portion that we do globally, but then also within our own country and even our backyard, where even with the COVID response, the state of North Dakota had one of the best responses to COVID. And it was because of the National Guard being heavily involved in that. You know, I mean, we’re kind of lucky because we have a limited population here, but with the capability and all of the people within, that’s why I always think, like, as long as you have people, you have the strength to take care of whatever is in your way.

Quallich: I must say, here in Bismarck, at least, with my experience, it was very effective and efficient, so I appreciate everything you all did, as well as all of the rest of our healthcare workers. So, thank you for that. So, Sergeant, as a recruiter, what’s the biggest challenge you’re facing right now?

Hoefer: Some of the biggest things is people’s medical history. I would say, typically, it’s always the big three are education, legal background, and their medical history because, you know, the military’s got to draw a line somewhere. They have to at least say, this is what’s qualifying, and then these things are not. I mean, as many things that could be, you know, something that people deal with since the day they were born, up to the moment right now, we always go through a series of questions just to ask people, what does it sound like before we even start the application process? We can have a conversation on the street or over the phone or whatever, and we can already pretty much have a good idea of whether they would just make it through the application process without even having any hurdles. biggest thing is there have been some changes in realizing that, hey, as a nation, we’re, I mean, not everybody, we always joke about it, you know, somebody being a unicorn, like they’ve never had any issues, never broken bones, never any issues. But to be honest, life happens. So what things have people dealt with, and I think one of the biggest things is if somebody goes from maybe when they hit their early educational years and maybe they don’t have the greatest attention, so we deal with have they been on medications, were they off the medications, did they deal with any kind of stressful moments in life where they went to see any type of professional help. And it’s not that we’re gonna say, hey, that can’t be, we can’t deal with those people. What we’re saying and looking at it now is that that is part of life, that people can get through those things. And we can still employ a ton of those people because they have been able to exhibit reasons why they’ve gotten through those difficult moments or they did heal. So it could be anything from a knee injury because they were playing high school basketball and they finally got through it and healed up and they had coaches bless off saying, hey, he’s a hard worker, he got healed, you know, or they have, could be a therapist saying, hey, they dealt with that when they were 13 years old and now they are a pretty strong person and you might say even more resilient because they’ve been able to do those things. So it’s really a whole gambit of the human experience. We kind of get fairly deep into people’s lives but we wanted to know all that stuff so we can support them in moving through the application process to help them get hired.

Quallich: Speaking of processes, what is the biggest change, good, bad, or otherwise, in the recruiting process that you’ve seen in your experience?

Hoefer: Well, I think the fact that they’re willing to grant a waiver, realizing, saying, hey, that did exist. I’ve heard it explained best when people, they always wonder like, hey, are we just like letting anybody in? You know, that’s always the question. Like, so you just let anybody, no matter what, come in, come through. And they’re not saying that by any means. What they’re saying is that we recognize what was, and we can see the changes that have happened since that. And that we still would like to hire this person and give them a chance. I mean, nobody, as far as I know, nobody’s invented a time machine to go into the future and see what somebody’s career looks like. And I’ve known people, I had a high-ranking non-commissioned officer tell me one time, like one of the highest ranks you can get to. And he said that he joined when he wasn’t very capable when it came to education. Had a very low score. Yet, he was a walking, living, breathing example of just how far you could take your career. You know, and we have different categories for scoring, for a scoring system when somebody takes the test and, you know, just exhibits whatever potential they’ve got currently. But there’s a program right now as well that is taking great advantage of seeing people if they came in and tested and they didn’t get a great test score, maybe they’re not a great test taker. But there’s a program that allows them to get hired, go to training, bump up their score a little bit. So they basically get tips and tricks and, you know, basically they raise their score and then they are able to then exhibit, just like I said, more potential and then head off to training just like they planned.

Quallich: How has technology, oh sorry, I was going to say, how much has technology, mainly the internet, helped to make your job a bit easier or has it?

Hoefer: I think it’s like a catch-22 there because you know even technology is great when it works. Boy, I say that all the time. I’ll imagine that. You know and it has made things easier over time. When I first started doing this it was we would have to replicate or connect to a system each day to even show the work that was being done and annotated in the system. And over time, it’s gotten better and better and better and better. But I think as long as technology is, as long as it can work, it’ll keep improving. And the hardest thing always is the security behind it. Because we always want to make sure that people understand that their process is strictly for them. There’s a privacy notice at the very beginning that we let them know that, hey, I’ve got a secret clearance myself to make sure that I can actually, you know, be allowed to go through their personal identifying information and then have the clearance to request records or get into their background. It’s just, I always hope that it works every day when I come into work. Yeah, I mean, from a FaceTime call, because somebody’s two hours away and they can’t make it in, but they can provide me some information so I can get an application started, that’s huge. And it just seems to keep getting better. From a different way, I always ask people like, well, how do you like to be, how do you wanna be in contact? Is it easier via email, text, instant messenger? I mean, everybody’s different. So I’m a big believer in face-to-face. That way there’s no nuance uncovered and maybe they’re not as comfortable, young people aren’t, but they can get there. You know, they have more interaction and kind of grow up right from the beginning.

Quallich: Yeah another of my guests who’s transitioning well because you talked about everybody’s different but yet you want everybody to play on the same team and I and I say that because the people that I some of the people I’ve known that have tried and have become successful in the military often what the biggest fears is not being, the word is often tough enough, you know, you’re thinking about basic training and drill sergeants right here in your face and people are, you know, so talk about sort of kind of how you had that discussion with potential recruits, if that’s to what degree that is still a thing, I suppose, if you want to say in basic training.

Hoefer: Yeah, that’s a great question. I’m so glad that you asked that because it is a big concern. You know, whether somebody had a parent that, you know, yelled at him at any point in their younger life, or, um, they screwed up and, you know, maybe broke something and dad got mad, whatever. Um, there are those moments of stress at basic training. And I always let people know it’s not personal. In fact, you might have done something exactly right and then they still need to find some way to put some stress on you to show you that you can perform in those moments. And it’s moments I can’t even think back to sometimes where like it really felt like it was slow motion. Like after I go back, but everybody else was like going crazy. And I hear I’m thinking, and I think it’s just because of all that training that people have got. But in that, when it comes down to it, even our drill weekends, we will actually invite people, even before they enlist, we will invite them to just come as a guest. So then when they see the drill sergeant in action, and they’ve seen that brown round, they’ve maybe even stood right next to him before. When they actually go off to training, it’s not the first time that they’ve seen that or done that. And when we have a bunch of young people, even when they enlist as juniors or seniors or freshmen in college, when they’re able to go through some drill weekends and feel prepared, I think those moments become a lot less stressful. And not that, you know, it’s still basic training they’re still gonna put you through the rigors but I think that I try to build that up as such a big momentous thing it’s like especially when they graduate high school that’s a huge accomplishment they’ve working for 13 years to get there and then they go and graduate their advanced individual training, they’ve accomplished three in the time that somebody else has done one, plus then probably came back and got hired or went back to school. So those are huge, significant pieces of their young lives. And when they are able to frame that in their minds where like, yeah, you know, I really like that idea. I think the motivation, it starts, it starts to become, you know, a bigger push. They have just this idea. I actually just saw somebody at a concert. He’s ships out in three weeks and it’s probably the most calm I’ve seen him. And I think he looked like he was older. He’s graduated high school. He felt, I mean, he just seemed like he had a different demeanor about him. So being able to see that and then see people grow, it’s part of some of my favorite stuff when we get to see, I’ve got a couple of people coming back from training soon. So I’ll see them within the month. And that’s one of my favorite things to see them. They’re in super good shape. They’re now motivated probably more than they’ve ever been in their entire lives. So while it is stressful, I just think like how much bigger and badder of a person are you gonna feel like? Like you’re ready to take on the world. Sure. So I appreciate those moments.

Quallich: Yeah. Professional, not personal. I think if some of us kept that a little bit more in mind, some of us would be a little bit less stressed out. So with just a little bit of time left, Sergeant I want to ask, what would your appeal to be to any North Dakotans who might be considering a military career right now?

Hoefer: The appeal, I really think, is as long as you are close to the age range. I mean, we’re talking, I would go from, I mean, our true age range that we target is 17 to 24. I mean, those are the ideal candidates, but we go 17 to 35. And then now I would even go younger and say, hey, a 16-year-old, if you have any inkling of just saying, hey, I think I might want to go job shadow. I mean, come job shadow with me, like I’ll take you around and introduce you to a bunch of people. I think if those people understand that they’re already exhibiting the potential, as long as you show up to school, that’s what we’re going to expect later on when you show up to go to work, you know, and you look like you could fit in that. And I think this, and I actually have a 38-year old-right now, he’s like, hey, I wanna just see if I can make this happen. I always encourage them to just go have the questions answered, have the conversation to see what the possibilities just might be. Cause even if you just use it as a hobby job, cause you like to, I don’t know, go blow stuff up on the weekend once in a while. I mean, it’s, it’s almost ridiculous as that, but also the camaraderie, uh, the professional environment. I just think of it as the, the most even playing field you might find in the world. And I do, I mean, it’s a valid argument because it’s the reason why we think of the U.S. military as the best in the world. It’s because we actually have values and morals. There’s things that are put in place why we can’t do things that other militaries do. We kind of play big brother to everybody. It’s just being able to be part of something so huge and it could just be just for you, just because you want to just be better, or it could be just, hey, do you want to have some have a job or have something that you’ve done that truly matters? So I’d say all those people, and even if people find out that they don’t somehow qualify, I still encourage all those people to go find some way to connect. You can volunteer. You can go get a civilian job and work right along next to somebody who wears a uniform. I mean, who knows? But it’s just a go ask, go have conversations, go walk up to somebody who wears a uniform and you never know just what might come out of that.

Quallich: Well, I might take you up on your offer, Sergeant. I just have to make sure I’m able to drop and give you 20 at least one time.

Hoefer: You’re probably in good shape, so I think you could do it.

Quallich: My wife would say otherwise right now, and so would I. So I’ll get back to you on that. Well, Sergeant, I can’t thank you enough for your time. Thank you so much for letting us know how things are going over there at the National Guard. And like I said, hopefully, people see this interview, and some of them will take you up on your offer. So thanks again, Sergeant, and thank you so much for watching the Voice of the People podcast here on kx.com. We’ll be back soon with more on the questions and answers affecting you, because remember, it’s your voice that matters: The Voice of the People.

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