Steve Toussaint on Corlys’ ‘House of the Dragon’ Journey: ‘He’s Untethered’

Editor’s Note: This interview contains spoilers for “House of the Dragon” Season 2 up until Episode 6, “Smallfolk.”

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From the very first episode of “House of the Dragon,” Corlys (Steve Toussaint) and Rhaenys (Eve Best) were the show’s resident power couple. A stable, powerful couple, on the side of the de facto good guys and with a strong claim to the throne (depending who you ask), fans rallied around them and their families always turned to the characters with respect and admiration.

In Season 2, Episode 4, the rug was pulled out from Rhaenyra’s (Emma D’Arcy) faction in the show, with Rhaenys and her dragon both dying in battle. The family and their allies mourned, but none more than Corlys, who must now forge a path forward on his own.

The same is true for Toussaint, on a slightly less morbid note. At the Season 2 press tour in June, he and Best were paired together for interviews, their comfort and chemistry on full display as they answered questions about the upcoming series (this reporter may or may not have walked into the room, bowed slightly, and said “Mother. Father,” before commencing her interview) — but that too has come to an end.

“It hasn’t sunk in properly,” Toussaint told IndieWire via solo Zoom interview around the middle of Season 2. “We shot out of sequence and then we were doing the promotion for the season… I think it’s probably more likely to impact me going forward. But certainly I do recall when we were all together reading these episodes, and then that came up, and I was like, “Oh, no, oh.” I mean, I knew it was coming — it’s Westeros, people die — but oh, rats. So it’s a bit of a shock to this system, but I’m coping.”

The loss will surely govern his character moving forward, but also quickly paved the way for Corlys to share more scenes with other characters, like granddaughter Baela (Bethany Antonia) and his son by another woman, Alyn (Abubakar Salim).

“Good actors are good actors, no matter how old they are,” Toussaint said. “The older ones may come with some reputational baggage… But the fact is, once you stand there in front of this other performer and look into their eyes and you see the truth, then the job is so much the easier.”

Ahead of the final episodes, Toussaint spoke with IndieWire about navigating his character moving forward, his dreams for the series, and navigating a major fantasy franchise as a leading Black actor.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

IndieWire: Even though losing Rhaenys hasn’t sunk in, how do you plan to approach that in terms of character? You still had to have scenes in this season of Corlys dealing with it.

Once I read the full team, I wanted to examine again, just for myself, the nature of grief… I went and I got a book by C.S. Lewis who wrote this whole book about grief, about the loss of his wife. One thing that comes across in that book is that there are moments I get when you feel that you’re over it, and then there seems to be a way of it coming across and remember. I tried to mine the later scenes for those moments that are just for Corlys — in fact it happens in a briefing in Episode 6, where he when he walks into small council for the first time with the brooch, and he stands at the table in the position that she stood in. The moment’s just for him, and then he goes around to his place as the hand — so looking for things like that, and trying to understand how that can affect somebody, because this is, of course, his life partner, and he is somewhat untethered without her,

We also really see that at the top of Episode 5, which is the scene of you alone with the Driftwood throne. Tell me about that one — there’s no dialogue.

I forget how it was written, but certainly, when I spoke to Claire about it, the point being, you’re looking around all this finery, the stuff that you use to create awe in visitors — In fact, I think in Season 1, Viserys (Paddy Considine) says something like that, and I was like ‘Oh my God, this is amazing.” And later on in 5, Baela is astute enough to say to him — all of that was for her, and it means nothing now she’s gone. That’s what I was trying to think about while I sat there looking at this stuff. Who cares? Who cares for all of this stuff? Because I don’t have the most precious jewel, which is the love of my life.

I’m so glad you brought up Baela, because your scene with Bethany is probably one of my favorites in that episode.

I think the one thing that the younger actors have brought to the show — let’s talk about Bethany in particular. There’s a wonderful sincerity to her, to what she does. It’s pure. You look into Bethany’s eyes and you see the truth, you see Baela, and it’s an absolute joy. It makes the ride that much more easy. I think that was the first scene that she and I had together where it’s just the two of us. Lots of scenes where we’re in the same room, but that was the first time we did that, and that was a real treat for us and I loved it.

I feel like it’s mirrored by the character too, where she’s showing this amazing maturity and you’re positioned as equals.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that’s also why he makes the decision to offer her — because it’s not something that springs to his mind previously. In the world that we live in, it’s going to go to a man, and then all of his heirs are killed, are dead. But it’s in that moment when she stands up to him — and I can’t remember exactly what she says, but words to the effect of “Well, you do what the hell you want. It’s up to you, because I’m going to do this thing.” And he thinks, “Oh my god, there’s that fire. That’s her grandmother, that’s her mother.” That’s the moment when he goes “Oh, this is the person who’s worthy.” But of course, she’s like, nah.

But speaking of potential heirs — secret airs, even — tell me about working the season with completely new actors too, with Abubakar and Clinton (Liberty). What is your prep like with them as we pick away at that story?

I’ve been the guy coming into that show that was doing very well, and you feel a little intimidated by these people you’ve seen on TV who’ve made it a success, and now you’re joining and you’re a little bit nervous. I think the first thing is to do is to welcome them with open arms, which I tried my best to do — both of them, because they’re both just really lovely people. For the most part, most of us do our best work when we’re relaxed, and it can be intimidating coming into this behemoth that we’ve created.

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So that’s the first thing, and then we just start having discussions. One of the great things that we’re very lucky in this television show, which is quite rare in television, is that we get time to rehearse — not a lot, but we get some. What normally happens is we meet up about a month before principal photography, we read through the scripts, and then we then go off with the directors and talk about the scenes — what does it mean and so forth, and what are we trying to get? Through those discussions, Abu and I were able to create a kind of narrative as to the journey that they go on in this season. One of the things I liked about it, reading it and then watching Abu do it, is I feel that Corlys sees part of himself in [Alyn] (for obvious reasons, I guess). One of things about Alyn is that he is proud, even where he is purely self made, which is how Corlys sees himself, and I think there is a grudging respect, which we’ll see as the season goes alone. But yeah, it’s about making people feel welcome and making them feel relaxed in the workplace.

That’s really interesting too, because after having had the conversation with Baela, and then ultimately having it be turned into salt and sea versus fire and blood, I feel like it’s really important to him to find salt and sea, to find that camaraderie somewhere.

Absolutely. Also I think it’s something that he knows anyway. Episode 3, when he’s working on the ship, and Rhaenys comes to him with the picnic and they discuss then; she says you’ve got to find an heir. Maybe he should be getting [Joffrey]. And then she said, “What about Rhaena?” (Phoebe Campbell) Well, Rhaena knows nothing of ships, so he knows the importance of having somebody who has the sailor gene. So it makes sense, hopefully, later on, that he might go, “Ah, yeah, it’s been there.” And in Episode 4, when Rhaenys comes again to the dock, and she speaks to Alyn and sees the two of them together, and she says, “I know who he is. I’ve always known, and it’s not his fault the circumstances of his birth. But you shouldn’t be hiding him away.” Later on, that may be something that Corlys sort of goes ‘Well, maybe I had permission from my wife to pursue this particular path. Maybe.

At the end of the day, the show is called “House of the Dragon,” but Corlys isn’t a dragon guy. This war is going on up there with these monsters — I think that’s really important.

Exactly. I don’t think he’s entirely trustworthy of dragons. I don’t think he’s entirely trustworthy of a vehicle that has a mind of its own, frankly.

It’s so cool the way that Black actors have been positioned especially compared to “Game of Thrones” and you specifically since day one. I know you’ve also had to shoulder a lot of negativity especially early on, but I wanted to check in on especially now that the cast is growing.

It’s been terrific. I hadn’t realized the significance of it. When I got the job I was just like “Yay, I’m gonna be in ‘Game of Thrones!'” And then that other stuff happened, and I was like, “oh, wow, okay.” For me that has, for the most part, subsided. I’ve actually had people contact me saying — not “I was racist to you,” but that “I was concerned about your casting, but I love what you do. Thank you,” so that’s been great. I had for a while thought “Well, that’s that’s gone. That’s fine,” but I heard that certain other members of the cast have received some negative stuff. I don’t, I was just speak for anybody, but that’s what I’ve heard. So that’s annoying.

As a person of color — I’m not going to make any assumptions about your experience — but I am sure most of us are at a point where we just go, “You know what? There’s going to be that stuff, but I have to live my life. I can’t be worrying about that. I’m not going to deny that it happened. I don’t think there’s any point of pretending it’s not there, but it doesn’t rule me. As I said very early on in the process, when we’re doing Season 1, this is not my story. This is not what defines me. So that’s what I’ve done, and I tried to impart that to some of the younger actors who were first coming into this kind of exposure. It isn’t nice when you’re on the receiving end of it, but you know what? The sun comes up tomorrow. There are more important things. There are more exciting things. You have friends, people around, who support you, who will help you through it.

I think it speaks to the quality of the work that you’re doing and what you’re able to bring to the characters — all of you — that even someone who is being negative and doesn’t know why they’re being negative is able to then come back around. That’s nice to hear at least.

As they say, haters gonna hate. Let’s them do that in their small little room somewhere, in their underpants, in their mother’s bedroom, or whatever the hell it is that they do. And the rest of us will just get on and live our lives and try to strive.

They do be hating. Have you read “Fire & Blood?” I know there’s a range in the cast.

I chose not to. When we started shooting Season 1 day, George Martin sent us all signed copies, but I chose not to read it. They’re two different mediums, but also I was just concerned that I would read something in the book and fall in love with that particular thing, and then Miguel (Sapochnik) or Ryan (Condal) would go “Oh we’re not going that way,” and I’d be like “oh but he does that in the book!” So I thought, no, no. I am portraying this television version of him. There are plethora of people who follow me who are quite happy to tell me what is going to be happening and so forth, and that gives them joy. That’s great. But no, I chose to stick with just the script. Maybe I’ll read it whenever my character is dead.

So you don’t necessarily know what’s coming?

No. I’ve heard bits and pieces. I know Bethany’s read it, and I think Abu might have too. I’ve had discussions where people say, “Oh well, this might happen.” Okay, fine, but I don’t hold on to any of that.

Since you’re sort of a blank slate in that way, what’s something you would hypothetically be looking forward to or want to do down the line?

I’m sure this doesn’t happen, but I would love for Corlys to confront Aemond (Ewan Mitchell). I’m sure that doesn’t happen. I’m looking forward to warfare, actually. I actually quite like the idea. I’m trying to think as we go through the episodes, there’s very few bits where I’m actually at sea commanding my ship. I want at least one of those. So that would be nice, to be standing on the on the bow with the wind blowing like yeah let’s go, let’s do it! I’m looking forward to that.

“House of the Dragon” airs Sundays at 9 p.m. on HBO.