IAEA chief addresses growing nuclear risks in Ukraine and Iran

Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the United Nations that Russia is preparing to attack Ukraine’s nuclear plants. At the same time, Iranian officials have repeatedly stated they are interested in resuming nuclear diplomacy. Nick Schifrin discussed more with Rafael Grossi, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

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Geoff Bennett: Ukraine’s president today at the United Nations warned that Russia is preparing to attack Ukraine’s nuclear plants. At the same time, Iranian officials have repeatedly stated they are interested in resuming nuclear diplomacy.

Nick Schifrin is back to speak with an official who is central to both challenges — Nick.

Nick Schifrin: Yes, Geoff, central to both challenges because the International Atomic Energy Agency, or IAEA, is responsible for monitoring and ensuring the safe use of nuclear power around the world and for inspecting countries’ nuclear programs.

Rafael Grossi is the director general of the IAEA, and he joins me now.

Director General, thank you very much. Welcome back to the “News Hour.”

As we just said, today, at the U.N. General Assembly, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy accused Russia of — quote — “planning attacks on our nuclear power plants and their infrastructure.”

Do you have any crowd corroboration for that accusation?

Rafael Grossi, Director General, IAEA: Thank you very much. As always, a pleasure to talk to you.

No, we don’t have that information. Of course, we are aware of the statement by the president. We don’t have that.

Let me simply say on this thing that we have said very clearly at the U.N. Security Council and elsewhere that nuclear power plants should never be attacked wherever they are. Let me also say that, as you may remember, the IAEA has personnel deployed not only at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, but also at every other nuclear power plant in Ukraine, Rivne, Nytskyi, South Ukraine, and Chernobyl.

So we are present in all these sites.

Nick Schifrin: So is — the context for this is Russia’s occupation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which you visited just a few weeks ago, and as well as your presence, as you just said, at other nuclear power plants.

And Ukraine and you have pointed out that for these nuclear power plants to stay safe, they need to have electricity. Russia has deliberately targeted Ukraine’s electricity infrastructure. Is there a higher concern today that the electricity that these plants need to maintain their safety could be cut off?

Rafael Grossi: This is a permanent concern of ours.

In reality, there have been already eight complete blackouts at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. And, of course, we are aware of the events and incidents on other parts of the electric grid and the infrastructure.

So, we are also monitoring that. We have established, as an additional measure, a system to assess and analyze the critical substations to the nuclear power plants from, of course, a perspective of nuclear safety in all of them.

Nick Schifrin: Let me switch to Iran.

This week at the U.N., you met Iran’s new foreign minister, who is well-known to you, a former nuclear negotiator for Iran. And you said you see a — quote — “expressed willingness to reengage with us in a more meaningful fashion.”

Why do you say that? And what does that actually translate to?

Rafael Grossi: Because I was told so. So I heard the foreign minister who said that.

I also got a letter from President Pezeshkian during the summer indicating that — his willingness to meet with me. And we are — precisely, one of the things we were doing with Foreign Minister Araqchi, whom I know very, very well and has a lot of experience in nuclear matters and negotiations.

We are preparing the ground for that meeting, which should be — in their own interpretation, should mark a clear progress, a turning point, as they say. So I have to see. There are lots of things that we need to discuss, and we are preparing for that.

Nick Schifrin: So, among the things that, of course, you need to discuss is a problem that you have had for years, which is that Iran has failed to explain uranium traces found at undeclared sites.

Do you believe that they are interested in finally providing those explanations?

Rafael Grossi: Well, I have to continue. I should never give up.

I’m hearing a high official of a member state of the IAEA. Of course, there is a history, and we always have that in mind. But we trust, but we verify. So we hope that this will be the case and that we will be able, at long last — like you say, this has been going on for a long time — to move to a better place.

Nick Schifrin: What about restrictions on some of your inspectors that Iran has placed? Do you believe that they might lift those?

Rafael Grossi: They won’t do that. They indicated, unfortunately, that the inspectors, they have taken out of our roaster of inspectors visiting different facilities in Iran which have been taken out of that list will not be restored to it.

So, I am, frankly, frustrated about this. But as I said to one of your colleagues, that ship has sailed. We continue. We will be trying to do the best we can, and we will certainly do.

Nick Schifrin: And the larger context for this, of course, is what you have called the turbocharging of Iran’s nuclear program, enriching uranium up to 60 percent purity.

Last month, the IAEA said Iran added nearly 50 pounds of highly enriched uranium, exceeding what it would need to create at least three nuclear weapons. Do you believe you understand that you can’t understand the baseline of Iran’s nuclear program? And do you believe that that means you could have negotiations?

Rafael Grossi: Well, for that, that — that is exactly what we want to do. We want to reestablish a credible baseline on — with regards to the material, with regards to the production capacities in terms of centrifuges and other things which are truly indispensable to prepare.

I’m not talking about a final or wide-ranging negotiation. I’m talking about preparing the grounds for that. If you don’t have the — or the IAEA does not have the ability to say what is what is there, what is present there, then the basic foundations for a sound negotiation are simply missing.

And I believe my Iranian counterparts understand this. So let’s hope that this reengagement, reestablishment of contact, my upcoming visit to Tehran, will be a positive one.

Nick Schifrin: Rafael Grossi, director general of the IAEA, thank you very much.

Rafael Grossi: My pleasure.