Whether you prefer old-school stats, new-school metrics or the eye test, Trea Turner has struggled defensively at shortstop since joining the Phillies in 2023.
Phillies president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski said during his year-end press conference Tuesday that the Phillies still plan to move forward with Turner at shortstop, though.
"Well, when you say that, his metrics are very similar to what they were before he came here in many ways," Dombrowski said. "So Trea will be our shortstop, yes. He's going to be our shortstop [for] the coming year.
"But we also feel that sometimes you have to be careful with some of that, and I'm not sure which metrics you're using, but they're not always 100%," Dombrowski said. "We rely on defensive metrics but there's also not a perfect way of describing the defensive aspects of our game as far as we know."
It is true that there isn't a perfect defensive metric, and coaches and players will tell you that there are ways based on positioning to manipulate some of the numbers. With that in mind, defensive metrics should be part of the evaluation, but not the entire thing.
However, the new and old-school metrics most commonly used have dropped off quite a bit since Turner put on red pinstripes.
From 2021-2022 — time that he split between the Washington Nationals and Los Angeles Dodgers — Turner had zero defensive runs saved. Between 2023 and 2024, Turner has -26 DRS.
Turner had zero outs above average from 2021-2022, but -8 OAA over his first two campaigns with the Phillies.
If you prefer old-school metrics, Turner had 27 errors between 2021 and 2022. In the first two seasons of his 11-year/$300 million deal with the Phillies, he has 40 errors.
Dombrowski acknowledged some of the shortcomings, but did say that the Phillies believe there are some positives from him defensively as well.
"He did not have an outstanding [season as a] defensive shortstop," Dombrowski said. "He does have good range. He makes some really good plays at times, but he also makes too many errors at points. But he has improved, he's worked hard and I wouldn't be surprised if he continues to improve despite his age."
It was pointed out to Dombrowski that in terms of DRS, OAA and errors Turner has declined the past two seasons, and he was then asked why he believes the 31-year-old will improve as he ages.
"Well, he works hard," Dombrowski responded. "First of all, he's the rare player — and one of the reasons we signed him to a long-term contract — he's very athletic, and so his speed is still very good. He's still one of the fastest guys in baseball. So I don't think you can compare his aging process to, say, the average player.
"But he's a guy that's just very athletic," Dombrowski continued. "He works hard. He's got a good infield instructor in Bobby Dickerson. We saw some strides ourselves this year on some things that he improved upon. So that's why I think he'll get better."
After the Phillies were eliminated by the New York Mets in Game 4 of the NLDS, Turner reiterated that he still believes his long-term future is at shortstop , and pointed to similar positive feedback he got in the second half of the season.
"I feel good going forward. I feel like, like I said, I made some strides and I feel confident. I feel like the second half was pretty good," Turner said.
"I don't know the numbers. I think I talked to you about that maybe a month or so ago. I don't know the actual numbers. I think Bobby tried telling me one day and I said 'I don't wanna hear it, because I don't wanna know.' He said that I've been playing better defense, and I felt that way."
The thing about Turner is the Phillies didn't sign him believing they were getting prime Jimmy Rollins in the field. In Washington and Los Angeles, he was mostly an adequate shortstop. When paired with his offensive output — which has been good when compared to other shortstops but maybe streakier than anticipated — he would be one of the best players at his position. That was the thought process.
Through two seasons with the Phillies, Turner's overall defensive output — if you value DRS, OAA and errors — has been among the worst players at any position. The Phillies are betting he'll buck that trend in 2025.
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