Takeaways: Warren and Deaton clash on abortion, Ukraine in combative debate

Sen. Elizabeth Warren and lawyer John Deaton sparred over funding Ukraine, who is to blame for the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and more in their second debate.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren and John Deaton met Thursday night in Springfield for their second of two planned debates.

After a tense meeting earlier this week, the second debate was noticeably more combative. Both candidates fought moderators and each other for more speaking time, lobbed accusations of corruption, and painted a grim portrait of the senate if their opponent were to win.

Warren, the Democratic incumbent and a well-known progressive, is fighting for her third term. Deaton, a personal injury lawyer, is seeking elected office for the first time. The hourlong debate, sponsored by New England Public Media and GBH News, included a wide range of topics.

Below, find takeaways from three major points of discussion.

Abortion

Deaton, who is running as a moderate, has repeatedly claimed to be a greater champion of reproductive care and abortion rights than his opponent. He has stated that he would vote to codify Roe v. Wade, and was asked what provisions he would put into a potential bill that could garner wider GOP support.

While Deaton said he couldn’t speculate as to what his potential colleagues would vote for, he expressed support for the existing abortion laws in Massachusetts. Deaton claimed that there are six people responsible for the overturning of Roe v. Wade: Donald Trump, Supreme Court Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett, and Neil Gorsuch, the late Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and Warren. Deaton’s attack rested on the argument that, in 2013, Warren said she would push Reid to get rid of the filibuster while knowing that Republicans would use its elimination to stock the Supreme Court with anti-abortion judges.

“Her fingerprints are all over this Roe decision,” Deaton said.

Warren countered by saying that Deaton has expressed support for Gorsuch in the past, even though Gorsuch was a known skeptic of Roe v. Wade. Warren attacked Deaton for defending the filibuster, saying that it is currently keeping Democratic lawmakers from codifying abortion rights.

“If Republicans are in control of the Senate, there will be no bill to make Roe v. Wade the law of the land. It doesn’t matter if we have 50 votes for it, or 51, or 52. With Republican control of the Senate, we will have no bill to codify Roe v. Wade,” Warren said.

Deaton said that Democrats could have codified it in 2022 when they had control of both chambers of Congress and the Presidency. He claimed Warren did not work to drum up support for such a move. Warren said her opponent needed to “re-check his facts” and talked about standing in favor of a bill that would codify Roe v. Wade.

Aid to Ukraine

The two candidates were asked about America’s support for Ukraine as it works to fend off Russian attacks.

“The Ukraine War is the single biggest issue in this election, period,” Deaton said. “One mistake, and we’re in World War III.”

Deaton said his skepticism of continued funding for Ukraine was because of a lack of a cohesive plan on the part of American leaders. He took issue with America spending hundreds of billions of dollars that has resulted in a “stalemate at best” in Ukraine. Deaton was noncommittal on continued support, saying that he supports democracy but that his vote would “have to be earned.” When describing lawmakers in Washington who say the plan is to have Ukraine resoundingly defeat Russia, he called them “warmongers.”

Deaton said money that was sent to Ukraine would have been better used for domestic priorities like expanding Medicaid and universal pre-K.

Warren touted her experience visiting Ukraine and sitting on the Senate Committee on Armed Services. She argued that Ukraine must continue to receive strong American support because it is “fighting the frontline war for democracy.” Warren said that Russian President Vladimir Putin would be emboldened by a victory in Ukraine and continue waging wars of aggression across Europe.

“Anyone who thinks that we can turn our backs on Ukraine and that Vladimir Putin won’t take the whole country and after he takes that country, take another, and another, and another, is just kidding themself,” Warren said.

Warren praised President Biden’s efforts to stand with Ukraine. She accused “extremist” Republicans of opposing aid to the country because of their loyalty to Trump.

East-west rail service

Despite the hostilities that dominated most of the debate, Warren and Deaton found a bit of common ground when asked about the potential expansion of passenger rail service that would connect Boston to western Massachusetts.

Warren said she was “all in” on the idea, claiming it would transform the state’s economy. She spoke about working with Rep. Richard Neal, who represents large swaths of the western Massachusetts. The two have been working on it for years, and have the support of Gov. Maura Healey.

Deaton also said that expanding passenger rail would be extremely beneficial to the region and to the state as a whole. He spoke about how it would help alleviate the housing affordability crisis in the greater Boston area and could accelerate the growth of renewable energy in western Massachusetts.

But there was still plenty of room for disagreement. Warren blamed years of Republican leadership for an underinvestment in infrastructure, and praised the Inflation Reduction Act, passed under Biden’s leadership, for its emphasis on infrastructure spending. She promised to continue to work to secure funding for an east-west rail network, but said that that is contingent on Democrats securing control of congress.

The conversation turned to housing more explicitly. Both agreed that Massachusetts is facing a crisis, but Warren said the solution is to use the government to create more housing supply, and criticized the notion of letting “the private market fix it.” Deaton accused Warren of believing that greater government interference is the solution to all of society’s problems. He said he wants to “cut red tape” and give tax credits to builders.

“The bottom line is that the government is the problem most of the time,” Deaton said.

Bonus: lightning round

During the last few minutes of the debate, Warren and Deaton were both presented with a series of lighter, rapid fire “lightning round” questions.

The two were asked what their favorite spots in western Massachusetts are, other than Springfield. Warren said hers was Jacob’s Pillow, Deaton said his was Pittsfield.

They were asked to name a political role model that is currently in office. Deaton named Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, Warren named Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Warren and Deaton were asked if they support Question 4, a Massachusetts ballot measure that asks voters to decide if some psychedelics should be legalized and regulated in a limited manner. Warren said she supports it, Deaton does not.

Both candidates grew up outside Massachusetts. They were asked about one thing they did not appreciate about the state until they moved there. Deaton said it was the seafood, Warren said it was the changing fall leaves.

What kind of candy will they hand out on Halloween? Warren said she’s a fan of Mounds and Almond Joy. Deaton favors Reese’s cups.

Finally, the two were asked what their consolation meal would be if they ended up losing the race. Deaton said it would be chicken nuggets with his daughter. Warren said she would head to Frank’s Steak House in Cambridge.

Staff Writer

Ross Cristantiello, a general assignment news reporter for Boston.com since 2022, covers local politics, crime, the environment, and more.