Delphi Trial: Officials recount Richard Allen’s arrest, interviews

CAROLL COUNTY, Ind. — On Day 8 of the Delphi murders trial — exactly two years after Richard Allen was arrested — Indiana State Police Lieutenant Jerry Holeman was called to the witness stand to recount both the arrest of Richard Allen and interviews he gave in 2022 regarding the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi, Ind.

This follows Day 7 of the trial, in which Melissa Oberg, a former Indiana State Police forensic firearms examiner, testified about the cartridge found at the murder scene and described her work to match that bullet to a Sig Sauer P226 found during a search of Allen’s home.

Defense attorney Bradley Rozzi challenged the conclusiveness of her results. He pointed out that Oberg compared a fired bullet from the Sig Sauer to the “unspent bullet” found at the murder scene. Oberg countered that an “ejector mark is an ejector mark whether it’s fired or cycled.”

On October 26, 2022, Richard Allen was arrested in relation to the murders. By that time, he had Oberg’s findings that investigators believe linked Allen’s gun to the “unspent bullet” found at the crime scene.

On this date, Lieutenant Holeman interviewed Allen at the ISP post in Lafayette. While there, Holeman reminded Allen he still had his Miranda rights to remain silent.

Per Holeman, this interview was not recorded on tape due to technical difficulties.

Amid the interview, Holeman asked Allen to explain why a bullet from his gun was left at the murder scene. “The round from the murder scene matched the gun found at Mr. Allen’s house,” Holeman said.

Allen told Holeman no one had ever borrowed his Sig Sauer, his clothes, or his car. He never carried his gun unless he went fishing or mushroom hunting, he told the investigator. He said he didn’t have the Sig Sauer with him on Feb. 13, 2017, and couldn’t explain why a round linked to the firearm was found near the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German.

While Allen was asked how he typically carried a gun and confirmed he would “normally carry” in a side holster, he denied giving further answers. This led Holeman to try a different tactic.

“I have been trained in many techniques to conduct interviews,” said Holeman. In this case, the technique he had to implement was “…to lie to obtain information.”

Thus, Holeman told Allen he had pictures and audio of him on the Monon High Bridge, proving Allen was the “Bridge Guy” captured on Libby’s cell phone who commanded the girls to go down the bridge. Holeman also stated witnesses and experts confirmed this information.

At the trial, Holeman had to admit to the jury that this was a lie to get more info out of Allen.

Defense Attorney Andrew Baldwin asked Holeman if he’d leveraged Allen’s wife and daughter; Holeman said that wasn’t his intention.

Holeman also said on trial that he did not know who the witnesses were who did see Richard Allen’s car on the trail. “I told two lies that day,” said Holeman. Baldwin pressed Holeman here, questioning his role as the lead investigator. At this time, it remains unclear if the second lie refers to Holeman saying witnesses saw Bridge Guy, or whether witnesses specifically saw Richard Allen.

Holeman also told Allen “I’m not lying to you, that’s not ethical.” With the death penalty on the line, Allen then said “I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”

The investigator insisted the cartridge found at the scene had been cycled through Allen’s gun. Allen again told him it wasn’t possible.

“There’s no way that round cycled through my gun,” Allen said. “I don’t know how it got there.”

Holeman testified that they never took the results of the bullet markings anywhere else but the ISP lab.

Later in the interview, Richard Allen denied killing the girls “20-25 times”, according to Holeman. He reportedly told the lieutenant “I’m not going to tell you something I didn’t do.”

However, despite denying the bullet left at the murder scene was from his gun, Holeman said Allen did admit to being on the trail that day, near where Abby and Libby were killed.

Holeman stated that while troopers were searching his house, Richard Allen said “I don’t care, it’s over.” Holeman initially did not know what this meant, so Allen reportedly said the “interview explained it.”

Holeman then added that a trooper told Allen he was not a bad person. Allen responded to this, asking “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”

That trooper advised Allen he was free to leave. Allen said he was done but continued to talk, Holeman said. According to him, Allen then stated “You have all the evidence, just arrest me.”

At the trial, Baldwin asked Holeman if he found the various “Bridge Guy” witnesses credible. Holeman replied that he did.

Holeman was asked if Allen parked at the old CPS building and if it was the working theory that Allen never took Libby German’s phone or moved it. Holeman answered in the affirmative.

The defense attorney noted that Allen never threw away his clothes or gun. He didn’t sell his car. He asked Holeman if he thought one person committed the crime, to which he responded “I believe that now.” When pressed, Holeman compared the case to a drug deal in which multiple people talk and provide further insight on crimes.

Holeman said he believes Libby German was killed at a tree where blood was found, away from Abby Williams. At the autopsy, Libby German was reported to be 5’4″ and 200 pounds. For reference, Richard Allen is 5’4″ and 145 pounds.

Holeman was then questioned if he and ISP had a video of Bridge Guy, in order to see how tall he appeared in the video. He responded by saying they did but never tested it due to his height potentially being “…outside of our accuracy range” by about two inches.

Later, Lieutenant Holeman noted that a strand of hair found in Abby’s hand did connect to a member of Libby German’s family, but it was not tested until this past week. According to Holeman, that is because no member of the German family was suspected of the crime.

No DNA was found in Richard’s Allen car or house linking him to the crime scene.

Holeman was asked by the defense if it was a mistake for multiple sticks to be left at the scene of the murder. “No,” he proclaimed, “But mistakes were made.”

Holeman said he believed the sticks were used to camouflage the girls’ bodies, rather than be used to position them in a certain way.

He does, however, think Allen “…may have heard somebody”, such as a car, that interrupted him during the murder. “Before he killed them, after, I don’t know.”

The lieutenant added to these beliefs, saying he does not agree with the defense’s theory that Abby and Libby were picked up in a car on Monday afternoon, had their bodies brought back and were dumped in the water the following morning.

Holeman also said there was nothing to contradict the theory that Libby German’s phone stayed at the murder scene the entire time.

Per Defense Attorney Andrew Baldwin, Richard Allen was interviewed on October 13th and 26th of 2022. The defense now wants the videos of those interviews to be played in court.

According to Special Judge Fran Gull, those videos will be played next week.

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