The world knows 'Venezuelan people voted for change,' opposition leader Machado says

The top United Nations human rights official voiced deep concerns over the deteriorating situation in Venezuela two weeks after elections that the opposition says it won. President Nicolas Maduro claims he won the vote and is cracking down heavily on protestors. Nick Schifrin discussed the political crisis in Venezuela with opposition leader María Corina Machado.

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Geoff Bennett: The top United Nations human rights official today criticized Venezuelan authorities for what he called arbitrary detentions and disproportionate use of force more than two weeks after elections that the opposition says it won.

In a moment, Nick Schifrin speaks with the main opposition leader who was blocked before the vote from running. But, first, he has a look at president Nicolas Maduro’s crackdown and the opposition’s resistance.

Nick Schifrin: In downtown Caracas, they light candles to demand democracy, but also memorialize what they called their lost freedom and the regime’s opponents who have been disappeared since they demanded President Nicolas Maduro step down for allegedly stealing last month’s election.

The government calls the crackdown on its critics Operation Knock-Knock. Police officers armed with guns and videos of protesters have arrested more than 2,000 and launched a social media campaign with music, even Christmas jingles, showing off police detaining what the government calls criminal terrorists.

Nicolas Maduro, Venezuelan President (through interpreter): I tell you, people of Venezuela, they tried to rob electoral centers. I have asked the attorney general to have an iron fist with terrorists, with opposition protesters, with violent people. We will not allow them to create a spiral of violence.

Nick Schifrin: Opposition leader Edmundo Gonzalez is in hiding, posting videos online, but, last month, with his political patron, Maria Corina Machado, showed proof he more than doubled Maduro’s votes.

Edmundo Gonzalez, Venezuela Opposition Presidential Candidate (through interpreter): We have in our hands the tallies that demonstrate our categorical and mathematically irreversible victory.

Nick Schifrin: Maduro and his allies on the Electoral Council say he won with 51 percent, but have refused to publish the vote breakdown.

Over 11 years, Maduro’s authoritarian rule has led to economic collapse, diplomatic isolation in the exodus of nearly eight million Venezuelans. The U.S. is hoping diplomacy can force a democratic transition.

Vedant Patel, Principal Deputy State Department Spokesperson: The U.S., along with other international partners, including countries like Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, have called for transparency and called for the release of detailed vote tallies. And we urge Venezuelan parties to begin discussions to a peaceful transition back to democratic norms.

Nick Schifrin: And to discuss this pivotal political crisis in Venezuela, I’m joined by opposition leader Maria Corina Machado. She joins us from an undisclosed location.

Thank you very much. Welcome to the “News Hour.”

Let’s talk about this crackdown that we just highlighted that Maduro and his regime has launched; 2,400 have been arrested. Rights groups say two dozen killed. How brutal has it been? And are those numbers actually even higher?

Maria Corina Machado, Venezuela Opposition Leader: It has been brutal. It is happening as we speak.

We have hundreds of members of our teams that are actually in hiding. The regime has even got to their homes and marked their homes, their doors. They have taken monitors that worked as volunteers. And if they don’t find them, they have even taken their family or members of their family so that they will hand out to the regime.

So we are now very concerned because we are preparing for a huge mobilization this next Saturday around the world and in Venezuela. And we expect the regime once again to try to crack down on peaceful protesters.

Nick Schifrin: What do you believe is the threat to you personally?

The attorney general, a longtime Maduro ally, has announced a criminal probe against you. Maduro himself said you should spend 30 years behind bars. What’s the threat to you?

Maria Corina Machado: Maduro said a couple of days ago I’m a terrorist.

The regime knows that the defeat they suffered was huge. The world knows that Venezuelan people voted for change, and we have the proofs. And at this point, the only thing Maduro has done is use violence and be surrounded by the top ranks of the military.

But this is not sustainable. We will not surrender. We will not give up. And we ask for the democratic world to accompany the Venezuelan people on this struggle for freedom.

Nick Schifrin: We have talked about that call on Saturday that you just made for a large protest. What are you hoping to achieve? And why do you think the protests so far haven’t been bigger?

Maria Corina Machado: Well, the protests have been huge.

But the thing is that repression has been, as I say, cruel. And we need to administer this people power in moments in which a lot of people can come together and they are safe. And that’s how we are designing the Saturday event. We’re calling people to come with their children, grandchildren, their parents.

It will take place in over 120 cities around the world and in tens of cities inside Venezuela. It is a moment in which we all will get together, not only the Venezuelan people and the Latin community, but also Americans, Europeans, people that understand how important, critical it is to solve the conflict in Venezuela.

We have never had so much strength as we have right now. And in 25 years, the regime has never been so weak as it is right now.

Nick Schifrin: Do you believe that large protest is the best way to pressure Maduro? And what role is Gonzalez playing? I have been told that the opposition in general is not unified. Is it?

Maria Corina Machado: Well, it is absolutely unified, not only the position of our country. That narrative the regime used to put in place that this is a polarized country, that is not true.

Over 70 percent of our people wanted Edmundo to be president and voted for him, even though large millions of Venezuelans were allowed to do it inside and abroad. And now we are all coming together, not only to support Edmundo Gonzalez, but to defend the values that have brought the Venezuelan society in this huge and profound social movement that goes beyond ideological ideas.

This is a spiritual struggle that has brought all the base of society together at this point. We need certain internal pressure, but also the international community supporting us and make Maduro understand, as I said before, that his best option is to accept a negotiation with us.

Nick Schifrin: Let me ask about U.S. policy, therefore. The U.S. has echoed what you just talked about, a negotiated transition. It is working with allies and partners in the region, and it is not so far imposing penalties on Maduro or his deputies, including reimposing sanctions, introducing new sanctions perhaps.

Do you support the U.S. approach so far?

Maria Corina Machado: I am very grateful for the support we have received from the Biden administration and from both parties in Congress.

Fortunately, Venezuela has been — Venezuelan cause for democracy a bipartisan cause because it is well understood that it is the main issue in terms of national security. I mean, Venezuela right now is the biggest migration crisis in the world. And if Maduro stays by force, you will see in a very short period of time, three, four, five million Venezuelans fleeing our country, many reaching the U.S. border.

And that’s not what we want. We want those that have already left come back. So it is a moment in which we have to understand that Maduro has to be pushed. It’s not only offering him benefits from leaving power, but it’s also making it costlier for the regime to stay in power.

Nick Schifrin: Let me ask you explicitly then, should the U.S. be reimposing some oil sanctions, and should the U.S. impose new sanctions on the people that you have identified have stolen this election?

Maria Corina Machado: I think there are a wide variety of actions that the different countries, not only the U.S., can put in place, certainly, some of them directed to those who have committed crimes against humanity.

Just yesterday, the U.N. fact-finding mission said that there is a pattern for crimes against humanity in the actions that have taken place in the last two weeks. This is brutal. So, it has to be stopped. And the real incentives have to be put on the table. And Maduro has to understand that he will — he cannot keep on doing what he is doing right now.

We are doing our part, and we will. Our movement is a peaceful civic movement, but it is not weak on the country. It’s gaining strength because people will not surrender.

Nick Schifrin: You mentioned incentives. Should the U.S. explicitly offer Maduro and some of his allies, many of whom have been indicted by the Department of Justice in the U.S., relief from those indictments or safe passage for their leaving Venezuela?

Maria Corina Machado: There are different options, and all of those should be addressed at a negotiation process that has to be done seriously and with the — with a clear objective, which is a transition to democracy.

In the past, the regime has participated in several dialogues, and they have never complied with their commitments. This time is going to be different. Maduro has lost completely its legitimacy. Everybody knows that — inside and abroad that this is the most grotesque fraud in the history of this hemisphere.

Nick Schifrin: Maria Corina Machado, thank you very much.

Maria Corina Machado: Thank you, Nick.