'Focus on ethics': Sen. Durbin discusses efforts to reform the Supreme Court

For more on the 2024 Democratic National Convention, the Harris-Walz ticket and efforts to implement ethics reforms for the U.S. Supreme Court, Geoff Bennett speaks with Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., on the convention floor in Chicago.

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Geoff Bennett: And for more on the evening’s events, we are joined here in Chicago by Illinois Senior Senator Dick Durbin.

Welcome back to the “News Hour.”

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL): It’s good to be here.

Geoff Bennett: I want to start with what we heard from President Biden last night. You have known Joe Biden for decades. He is capping a half-century now of public service.

And what we heard last night, he defended his record. He also made an impassioned case for Kamala Harris. How do you think the campaign will use him on the campaign trail moving forward? And how does Vice President Harris navigate this new moment where she has to define herself without necessarily breaking away too far from the Biden presidency?

Sen. Richard Durbin: Joe Biden’s been my friend for 30 years-plus.

I have had a chance to talk to him privately in the last few days. And I can tell you there was an important statement in his speech last night. He said: “I love this job, but I love my country even more.”

I think those few words really defined his situation. He realizes he’d love to continue as president, but that isn’t going to happen because of his age. I think he’s going to be a very valuable asset for all Democratic candidates. I’d welcome Joe Biden to any corner of Illinois, and I mean it, the most conservative Republican area.

Guarantee you he can reach the crowd in that area too. And he can do the same thing for Kamala Harris.

Geoff Bennett: In your view, is a Harris/Walz ticket better positioned to win the White House than a Biden/Harris ticket would have been?

Sen. Richard Durbin: I’m not sure. I think Joe could have won it in a very close race.

But what’s happened in the several weeks since Kamala Harris has been our nominee is an amazing display of energy and spirit. You can feel it in this hall. You know, the majority coalition that we think we have on the Democratic side is dedicated to making sure that she wins.

And you saw last night, you can criticize this for going wrong. I will bet you half of that time was applause, spontaneous applause, that couldn’t be stopped. It’s an indication of the spirit of this convention.

Geoff Bennett: You spoke at the DNC last night, and you focused your remarks fairly heavily on the economy. And you talked about Donald Trump. You called him a bad boss.

Polls show that the vast majority of Americans still give him high marks on his handling of the economy. How do you account for that disconnect, as Democrats see it?

Sen. Richard Durbin: It depends on which indicator you look to. He’s one of two presidents in the history of the United States to have fewer Americans working when he ends his term in office than he did in the beginning, only two.

And you look at that and say, well, how could you have a successful economy when you have got six million more people unemployed? And that’s a fact.

There are some serious challenges on the economic front. We understand that on the Democratic side. But the notion that Donald Trump, with his skyrocketing tax cuts for the wealthiest people, the highest deficit in four years of any president, I mean, those are realities on the economic side as well.

Geoff Bennett: I want to shift our focus a bit and talk about the future of the Supreme Court, because that’s a resonant issue for lots of Democrats.

President Biden has said that the next president will likely have the chance to fill two vacancies on the Supreme Court. And right now, there is this groundswell of calls for increased checks and balances as it relates to the Supreme Court’s code of ethics, such that it exists.

Why haven’t you sought to subpoena Justices Roberts, Thomas, or Alito to come testify at a hearing focused on judicial ethics?

Sen. Richard Durbin: The Senate Judiciary Committee has rules that are different than the House. And one of those rules says, unless you have a bipartisan request for a subpoena, you have to be prepared to defend it against a filibuster.

We don’t have 60 votes if the Republicans won’t join us in this effort, and they refuse to. Imagine, we have one Supreme Court justice who has received, we believe, up to $4 million in undisclosed gifts, didn’t report them to anybody. And now he’s refusing to be held accountable for it by the court, nine people in our entire federal government who believe that they’re above the law. That has got to change.

The court’s strength is its integrity and its honesty, and it’s been attacked by at least one member of the court and should be the subject of ethics reform on a bipartisan basis.

Geoff Bennett: Well, how do you view your role as chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the authority that you have to hold the court accountable, such that you can do that?

Because there are Democrats who have criticized the committee for not doing more.

Sen. Richard Durbin: Well, I can tell you this. If you can count — and that’s the first job as whip of the Senate — you know that we don’t have 60 votes for ethics reform.

I think that’s a fertile field to work on. I have yet to hear a Republican senator successfully defend Clarence Thomas or even Alito’s flags. They don’t even try anymore. They just — as long as they can get decisions from the court that are sympathetic to their political point of view, they won’t even touch ethics.

The American people on a bipartisan basis completely disagree with that position.

Geoff Bennett: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez introduced impeachment articles against Justices Alito and Thomas. Is that something you support?

Sen. Richard Durbin: I don’t see any point in doing that, to be honest with you. I know she’s expressing frustration with the court. I share the frustration, but let’s do things that are meaningful and possible.

Geoff Bennett: What about the set of proposals that President Biden introduced, a range of things, term limits for justices, a binding code of ethics, a constitutional amendment overturning the court’s decision allowing sitting presidents to violate criminal law?

Sen. Richard Durbin: Focus on ethics. The other two require a 60-vote majority, as well as constitutional provision, some people believe.

But when it comes to ethics, we can do that by statute. We should do it on a bipartisan basis. There is no excuse, no explanation and no defense for what Clarence Thomas has been receiving, generous gifts from billionaires, some of whom appear before the court, and he refuses to recuse himself from the cases.

It’s a clear case, I think, on a bipartisan basis, where ethics is required.

Geoff Bennett: You say Democrats don’t have the 60 votes. We spoke with Senator Gary Peters on this program last night. He chairs the Senate campaign arm, and he says that he thinks Democrats, even with this tough Senate map, can get to 50, potentially 51 Democrats in this next election.

Are you that optimistic?

Sen. Richard Durbin: Listen, Gary is our quarterback when it comes to electing and retaining a Democratic majority in the Senate. So I stand by his analysis. He’s got much better information than I have.

But the spirit of this convention, this Chicago convention, I think, is going to help a lot of challengers, as well as those incumbents who are running for reelection.

Geoff Bennett: Lastly, what do you expect to hear from former President Barack Obama tonight? You were instrumental in his decision to run back in 2008. He probably couldn’t have done it without you.

Sen. Richard Durbin: It’s great to have him back home again. And he and I speak from time to time. His take on some of these issues is unique, as is Michelle’s take.

I think, between the two of them, it’ll be a fascinating evening.

Geoff Bennett: Senator Dick Durbin, it’s great to see you. Thanks so much for your time.

Sen. Richard Durbin: Good to be with you.