Why Charlamagne tha God is back on board the Kamala Harris train

A version of this first appeared in The Recast, POLITICO’s race and politics newsletter.

Charlamagne tha God is changing his tune.

The radio personality, a perpetual critic of Democrats and their tactics in taking on Donald Trump, told POLITICO in January that the presidential contest was shaping up to be a competition between “the cowards, the crooks and the couch.” Those were gutting words from an influential man whose show, “The Breakfast Club,” reaches 8 million people, many of whom are Black and brown — and exactly the voters Democrats need to shore up before November.

But ever since President Joe Biden was cast aside in favor of Kamala Harris, Charlamagne has watched the party shed what he alludes to as their spinelessness. And he’s all in on the vice president, though he contends he’s not telling his listeners how to vote this year.

Despite growing close with Harris during her time as a junior senator from California — and even stumping for her on the trail back in 2019 — they hit a rough patch. Earlier this year, he called Biden a lousy messenger and said he felt burned by Harris after she was tapped as running mate: “Once they got in the White House, she … kind of disappeared.”

But they’ve now appeared to have reconciled, and Charlamagne — who’s had at least one in-person conversation with the new Democratic nominee since her ascension — praised her for showing her full, true self to American voters.

There are, of course, some qualms left on how exactly she’ll mobilize enough Black voters this year and how she’ll answer for her record. We talk to Charlamagne about all that — and why he anticipates Harris will “dog walk” Trump in next week’s televised presidential debate.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

When our story originally ran in January, you were adamant about not endorsing during this presidential campaign. Clearly a lot has changed with Harris now atop the ticket and you’ve since thrown your support behind her.

How do you reconcile this? And is this change in your stance, as the kids say, an example of you not standing on business?

No. I feel like all my issues I had with the Biden-Harris administration were because of Joe Biden.

I personally didn't believe Joe Biden could have won. And clearly others, including himself, came to that conclusion, long after I did.

Now, when we talk about the vice president, I was frustrated because I expected more, because of my belief in her.

I know the role of the vice president is a complementary role, and she's there to help the president with his agenda. But these are unprecedented times. So I felt like we needed her to step up because Biden simply couldn't do it.

You previously told me you felt burned by Harris during her time as vice president. You don't feel like this is you going back on your word? To you, this is simply a remaking of the Democratic Party, which you’ve been calling for?

Absolutely. You can go back and watch me and the vice president's conversation when she was on my late night talk show, “Tha God's Honest Truth.” Everybody always talks about her going in on me when I asked her who was the real president, Joe Manchin or Joe Biden. But also underlying that conversation is me saying to her, “You can be that superhero that can save this democracy.” She needed to pivot now with her language and start being that person that I first saw back in 2017, when I was watching her in the Senate hearings.

But the one thing I will tell you, Brakkton, is I'm not going to tell nobody who to vote for. That's what I'm not going to do.

That's something I did back in 2020. And that's what made me feel burned.

There were a lot of my listeners who were like: “You told us to vote for this administration because this was going to happen and that was going to happen. And some of those things didn't happen.”

[Biden-Harris did pass] the American Rescue Plan funding [for] Durham, North Carolina’s Black Wall Street ... [the] $35 cap on insulin and $588 million to improve maternal health. But they fell short in promising things they knew they didn’t have the votes to deliver: the George Floyd Policing Act, the John Lewis Voting Rights Act — and the administration fell short by not treating Donald Trump like he was an actual threat to democracy.

You also said that Harris was “handcuffed” in the Biden administration. Can you explain what you meant by that? Do you see the handcuffs being removed now that she's the standard-bearer for the Democrats?

So when I say handcuffs, it's really just the position the vice presidency puts you in — sort of that complementary role.

Yet we were in such unprecedented times and Democrats, including Harris, were serving as this crew of Avengers to protect old Captain America.

Democrats have always been the party of cowards, especially in recent times when it comes to Donald Trump. But it took a lot of balls and a lot of courage from a lot of different people to say, “Yo, President Biden, you got to go.” We don't see that from Democrats too often.

Let's turn to the upcoming presidential debate. Clearly, we saw how much one debate can alter the trajectory of a political campaign. How critical of a moment is this for the vice president?

I wouldn't even ask how critical is it for the vice president. I’d ask, how critical is it for Donald Trump?

I'm a person that believes Donald Trump doesn't even want to run anymore. I just think he's trying to survive because of all of the criminal convictions he's facing. ... Now, mind you, I'm a person that doesn't believe he'll ever see prison because I just don't believe America has any systems in place to punish that level of white privilege.

Now, to go back to your question. I think Vice President Kamala Harris will dog walk Donald Trump in a debate. There really is no way he can win.

Let's just say it's a fair debate, they both respect each other, give each other the room to talk and respectfully disagree. If it goes like that, Kamala wins hands down because all Trump is going to do is lie, and Kamala is going to hit him with facts, and she's going to hit him with policy.

So the only thing Trump will be able to attempt to do is overpower her, talk over her, interrupt her, insult her. And if he does that, she still wins because he's going to look like a mad man.

So you're not worried about former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard being in the debate prep with Donald Trump? She made a couple of attacks on Harris in the 2019 presidential debates for prosecuting hundreds of Californians for weed charges as state attorney general while also admitting, on your program, that she previously smoked cannabis.

One thing that the vice president seems like she doesn't like to do is explain herself. When you go back and watch that Tulsi Gabbard thing, it was almost like Harris was just like: “You're telling such a blatant lie, why would I even dignify that with a response?”

But in those moments, you have to, because the American people are watching.

She needs to look at it as: “I'm not explaining this to you, Trump.” More like, “I'm setting the record straight.”

You have been frustrated with the Biden administration for not doing more on marijuana legalization and pardoning. So far, we've really not heard much from Harris or Tim Walz on this issue. And certainly, you're hearing Trump’s attacks about Harris locking up Black men.

Which is inaccurate, by the way.

Well, I was going to ask you about that because I've seen you pushing back on those critiques with your social media posts. Do you need to hear more on this issue from the Harris-Walz campaign?

When the vice president and I talked about the legalization of marijuana, she said we need to legalize it and she said she was for studying the effects of marijuana on people.

I highly doubt her position has changed in 2024, especially when she comes from a state where marijuana is legal, recreational and medicinal. And Tim Walz comes from Minnesota, where it's, you know, also legal .

The reason I thought President Biden should [pardon marijuana offenses] is because he is a person who was responsible for so many bills, especially drug legislation that threw a lot of Black and brown people under the bus, whether it was the 1986 mandatory minimum sentencing or that 1994 crime bill .

He could have done that with a stroke of a pen — pardoned everybody who was in prison on a federal level with nonviolent marijuana charges. Or he could have taken it a step further and did nonviolent drug offenses.

In the past, you shared with me that you back channeled with the vice president, but that there had been a bit of a falling out in your relationship. Have you spoken to her since she's been at the top of the ticket?

Yes.

Can you share details about the conversation?

There's always been lines of communication open. That's one thing I can honestly say about her is she checks on folks, and she is a person that has always kept lines of communication open with me. Even earlier this year, we've seen each other, we've shared space.

Has she expressed interest in having you out on the campaign trail with her again, like you did in 2019?

Not at all, actually. It's literally just catch-ups.

One of my biggest frustrations with politics, period [is]: You get to know a person personally, and then the cameras turn on and you’re like, “Who the hell is this individual?” Like, “This isn't the person I speak to.” But what has been a pleasant thing to me since she’s been at the top of the ticket: The person she's showing up as in the media is her true, authentic self.

When we saw her in, I think it was Michigan, when she stopped the protesters and she was like, “You want Donald Trump to be president? Keep doing what you do.” Like that is really her.

So yeah, I think it's going be a good thing if she wins in November because I think the Democratic Party as a whole, they really do have to continue to answer to America, but they really have to answer to Black voters.

There are a lot [of] Black people who feel like we've over-delivered for Democrats and Democrats, historically, they've under-delivered for us.

How does the Harris campaign go about mobilizing Black voters?

She definitely needs to answer questions from Black people, you know? We saw her sit down with [CNN’s] Dana Bash last [week] and it was cool. I think it was a little bit overhyped, but it's because she hasn't sat down and done a lot of interviews.

One thing that Donald Trump is able to do that I give him a lot of credit for: He talks to so many people that there's so much Donald Trump messaging just out there. So what the vice president needs to do is she needs to go out there. Talk to a lot of people and really utilize Black media. So when people have these questions about her record and about what it is that she's done, they can go right there and look it up.