Trump doesn’t want to talk about a national abortion ban. Harris doesn’t want to talk restrictions.

Former President Donald Trump would not commit to vetoing a national abortion ban. Vice President Kamala Harris would not say which restrictions she would support on the procedure.

Tuesday night’s debate offered a sharp contrast between the two candidates and their approaches on abortion. But what both had in common — a fear of alienating their bases.

The exchange highlighted the tightrope both candidates feel they must walk — appearing moderate so as not to alienate middle-of-the-road voters who support abortion access with some restrictions, without saying anything that could cause their most ardent supporters’ enthusiasm to wane. It’s been a particular problem for Trump, who has angered anti-abortion-rights advocates on several occasions by suggesting that the federal government has no more role to play in legislating abortion.

Harris used her time to excoriate Trump for appointing the Supreme Court justices key to overturning Roe v. Wade . And she tried to undercut one of Trump’s most-used arguments — that ending Roe and returning it to the states is what most people wanted.

“You want to talk about, this is what people wanted?” Harris said. “A 12- or 13-year-old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term. They don't want that.”

It was the starkest and clearest answer Harris has given on the implications of the fall of Roe and emblematic of the way her campaign has used the stories of women — including at the Democratic National Convention last month — to make that argument.

Trump, meanwhile, reiterated his support for his leave-abortion-to-the-states approach, which he said was only possible because of the “great courage” of the Supreme Court. But he wouldn’t weigh in on a veto of a national abortion ban — something Ohio Sen. JD Vance , Trump’s running mate, has said that the former president would do — saying that he “didn’t discuss it with JD, in all fairness.”

“They can never get this approved so it doesn’t matter,” Trump said. “I’m not signing a ban and there’s no reason to sign a ban.”

The two also had a back and forth on abortions later in pregnancy, with Trump suggesting incorrectly that Harris favors allowing abortion in the “8th or 9th” month of pregnancy. The vice president, who declined to say what limits she would favor on abortion, supports restoring Roe , which would protect abortion access until fetal viability, which is around the 22nd week of pregnancy. States could still restrict abortion beyond that point, though not all do so.

“Nowhere in America is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion,” Harris said. “That’s not happening, that’s insulting to the women of America.”

Harris also highlighted the ripple effects of the fall of Roe , nodding to an Alabama Supreme Court ruling earlier this year that said that frozen embryos are people, briefly halting some IVF services in the state. She said women were being denied such services because of “Donald Trump’s abortion bans.”

“Another lie, it’s another lie,” Trump said, calling himself “a leader on IVF.”

Trump has expressed support for IVF, and announced late last month that he would make IVF treatments free, paid for by the government or health insurance companies.