‘The Apprentice’ Director: Why Trump Fans Actually Love My Movie

It turns out that when you make the film that Donald Trump doesn’t want you to see, everybody wants to see it. At the very least, they want to talk about it. Fight about it. Scream about it. Or, in the case of Trump, threaten to sue about it.

The Apprentice , the film about Trump’s unscrupulous rise as a businessman in the ’70s and ’80s, detonated a fiery global discourse about its controversial scenes and the implications of it being released right before the election. In the crosshairs is director Ali Abbasi ( Holy Spider ), who, following a rapturous reception that caught the ire of the former president at the Venice Film Festival , wasn’t sure the movie would see the light of day in the U.S.

“This has been a very strange sort of strip tease, getting the movie release” he told The Daily Beast’s Obsessed the afternoon after the film’s New York City premiere. “You feel like you’re flirting with it. You’re dancing around it. You’re getting close. And then no, no—you can’t. Then you start over again.”

The movie portrays how a young Donald Trump ( played by Sebastian Stan ) is taken under the wing of notorious lawyer Roy Cohn ( Succession ’s Jeremy Strong), who puppeteers an insecure, ambitious daddy’s boy through the maze of morally compromising dealings required to command power and influence, no matter how artificial it may be. Not only does The Apprentice expose the allegedly corrupt means through which Trump achieved his eventual notoriety, it features a slew of damning scenes that immediately made headlines after its first screening—including one in which he rapes then-wife Ivana and another depicting a liposuction and bald spot removal procedure.

You’d be advised to take a Dramamine before reading the dizzying journey The Apprentice has weathered on its way to its U.S. theatrical release Oct. 11.

After its Venice premiere, Trump’s spokesperson announced an intention to file a lawsuit to block the film’s release, calling it “election interference by Hollywood elites” that belonged “in a dumpster fire.” No such lawsuit has been filed, but it had a chilling effect that scared distributors off acquiring the film. When The Apprentice was finally picked up, it still had to traverse a gauntlet of potentially lethal legal roadblocks to its release. (This Vanity Fair tick-tock is a great summary of everything that happened.) Along the way, the film became, sight unseen, a lightning rod in a thunderstorm of polarized debate about any political agenda it might have.

Through it all, Abbasi has developed an admirable sense of humor to accompany his steadfast belief in the film’s objective merits, should it be possible to view it sans any political lens. While he was in New York, for example, he stayed at the Trump International Hotel & Tower as a cheeky stunt—and was candid about his impression of the “bit dirty” room that was “not as luxurious as you would think.”

When I tell him that the Beast’s newsroom got a kick out of his choice of accommodations, Abbasi laughed. “I have to stay here now because of the publicity,” he said, “but I would rather change if you have a better suggestion.”

Ahead of Friday’s release, I chatted with Abbasi about the film’s chaotic path to theaters, the scandalized headlines over the rape scene, allegations that he’s trying to sway the election, and his pride in making a “political movie”—but not political in the way that some might think.

When I read the positive responses to the film when it premiered at the Venice Film Festival, I was expecting what usually happens in those cases: there would be a bidding war to acquire the movie. But there was a chilling effect that happened instead. Were you surprised by that?

Yeah, very much. I had high hopes. I was hearing all these people coming in, studio people and streamers. There was a time where it looked like [talks] were getting more and more serious. Then they wanted to see it with the legal team. Then they wanted to talk to the board. So it felt like, okay, talks were going higher and higher up. And then at some point, I bumped into some of these people. And they were like, “We love the movie. Sebastian’s amazing. Jeremy’s amazing. You did a great job. Good luck!” And I was like, okay, they’re scared.

It must have been gratifying this week to see Roger Stone praise how perfect Jeremy Strong’s portrayal of Roy Cohn was.

Yeah. Look, there is this really strange assumption still out there that somehow we have a coded message, tha we want to do a takedown on Trump or Cohn. That somehow we’re playing neutral to get people in the cinemas. In fact, I think marketing wise, the best way for us would have been to do a hit piece on him. Then we’d have gotten people buzzing. As we were making the movie, our liberal friends thought it was too soft, too humane, too sympathetic. People on the other side, they think we just want to show his flaws. We sort of end up being in the middle. But artistically, it is very satisfying, because when Roger watches it and I think that even when Mr. Trump watches it, I think they would instinctively see the difference between this and many other pieces that have been trying to be for or against him in a partisan or political way.

How important do you think it is that the film is being released before the election? How much do you think people will construe it as political because of the fact that it’s being released before the election?

The Trump camp, they have this uncanny ability to turn everything into publicity for themselves. That goes back to Roy Cohn’s way of operating with truth and reality. So I’m sure they would find a way of turning this into propaganda for him at some point. Look, this is very political. This is very polarized. It’s very heated. I can’t really contribute anything to the political debate of U.S. elections that hasn’t been said or done.

That’s a very fair point.

The legal system, the ways we can manipulate the system, the news media as entertainment, politics as sports, social Darwinism—those are not the things that were created or started by Roy Cohn or Donald Trump, but they were very good at navigating this system. So in that way, I don’t think that anyone can really accuse us of affecting the election or interference. But also, I think as sensitive as this time is, my job as a filmmaker and artist is to be as independent as possible. I can’t say, “Oh, this is too sensitive of a time to humanize Donald Trump.” I can’t say that because then I’m playing politics with my own artistic liberty and freedom. And I think that’s when it becomes really dangerous.

When you were making the film, did you expect some of the things that have since become these headline-making bombshells in the coverage to be such a big deal? Like the sexual assault scene, or the liposuction scene that everyone keeps talking about?

This is a really good question. It’s so strange that some countries are selectively controversial. Nobody seems to even react that the Trump Organization, you know, Fred Trump’s company, the family company that used to own all this real estate in Brooklyn and Queens, didn’t want to rent out to Black people.There was a Department of Justice lawsuit back in the ’70s. I find it very controversial and shocking the fact that he got a huge tax cut when he was building the Commodore from a city that was literally bankrupt. The fact that Deutsche Bank kept lending him money when he was deep, deep in red with hundreds of millions of dollars. I can go on and on and on. I think it’s strange that people just skid over those things.

What he did to Ivana is very problematic, obviously. I’m not saying that’s not significant. But I think it’s interesting how people are selective about it. Maybe it’s because a huge tax cut for billionaires in this country is not controversial. Maybe it’s just everyday business, but for me, it’s hugely controversial. So I am surprised in that way, but I’m obviously not naive. I expected [those controversies], but I’m still a bit surprised that nobody picked up anything else.

What has the experience been like to have controversy dominate headlines over the actual quality and content of the film itself?

When you get into the pool, you know what to expect. It would be dishonest to say, “Oh, we did a movie about Donald Trump and Roy Cohn’s relationship, and in these political times, we’re sad and angry that people are talking about politics.” We made a political movie. I’m proud that we made a political movie. But it’s not political in the party political sense. I just had a Republican friend who watched it, and she drew this conclusion that, somehow, this is a good case for Donald being a strong leader and it’s great that he’s running for presidency again.

When it comes to an actor like Sebastian Stan deciding to play Donald Trump at this time in the U.S., what were the conversations you had with him about the—I don't know if “bravery” is the right word, but what it was going to entail to take on this role at this time?

I think bravery is the right word. Not because you know, not because there is something necessarily negative or dangerous about playing Donald Trump, the character, but because of him having the career he’s having. Being in the mainstream the way he is and deciding to take on something that might make him unpopular with some people, that might polarize. Those are the things that, usually in Hollywood, you try to avoid at every cost. He’s professional and he’s got a great career, but also he’s an artist. Yes, it’s a difficult part. Yes, there’s going to be an aftermath to deal with. But it’s also an intellectual, artistic challenge. And he rises up to the challenge.

With everything that’s happened in the last months with this movie, from the fight to get it released to Trump threatening to sue at one point and all of the headlines and polarization, has it changed you as a person? Do you think you’ve become ballsier?

I like the idea of becoming ballsier. I don’t think it’s true. I’ve become a bit more loose. I’m happy and grateful as a filmmaker to get this chance to interact with reality. This is what you want as a person who’s expressing ideas and feelings. You want the reaction. You want to see people react with it. You want to see how it affects reality, and how reality affects it back. So whatever happens with all these threats and all that—which, by the way, there is nothing there, and they know it. There’s absolutely nothing. I keep saying that I’ll be happily waiting for a lawsuit, but there will be no lawsuit. They know that there’s nothing controversial in the movie. And they also know that whatever they do probably will help promote the idea that it’s a great movie, and people should go watch it.

It’s still, I imagine, a lot of overwhelming attention.

In a way, this is not very different from what we went through with Holy Spider with the Iranian government. The nasty reaction we got there, and the blasphemy charges and the death threats to the actors and and all that. I really hope that we don’t go into that territory with this. I hope that it stays in the “this movie belongs in the pile of trash” kind of thing. That is a criticism I can live with. Maybe I can use it on the DVD cover.

Read more at The Daily Beast.