On Thursday’s episode of The Excerpt podcast: USA TODAY Justice Department Correspondent Aysha Bagchi breaks down what democracy experts say about former President Donald Trump's threats to jail rivals . What can betting markets tell us about the Tuesday debate? A grieving Ohio dad asks politicians to ' stop the hate ' toward Haitian immigrants. USA TODAY Senior Reporter Jessica Guynn talks about anti-DEI efforts targeting LGBTQ+ rights , and how some companies are listening.
Hit play on the player below to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript beneath it. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
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Taylor Wilson:
Good morning, I'm Taylor Wilson, and today is Thursday, September 12th, 2024. This is The Excerpt. Today, a look at Donald Trump's threats to imprison opponents and whether they should be taken seriously. Plus, let's take a closer look at this week's debate. Now that the dust has settled and we hear about efforts to push back against DEI at big companies.
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Former President Donald Trump threatens to imprison his political enemies and experts on democracy and the rule of law say the risk is real. I spoke with USA Today Justice Department correspondent Aysha Bagchi for more. Aysha, thanks for hopping on.
Aysha Bagchi:
Thank you, Taylor. It's good to be here.
Taylor Wilson:
So Aysha, let's just start with this. Who has Donald Trump threatened to imprison? Which political rivals are we talking about? How have we seen this play out?
Aysha Bagchi:
He's brought those kinds of threats to a host of different groups. This past weekend, most recently he posted on Truth Social that people who cheat in the upcoming election will be prosecuted. He listed a handful of groups including lawyers and corrupt election officials. That's what he said. But in the same post, he said that there was rampant fraud and cheating in the last presidential election, which has really been disproven by lots of recounts and audits. And he's had lots of court cases that failed to uncover widespread fraud. So he was reiterating those kinds of claims that have been debunked and then saying people who do the same thing in the upcoming election will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But that comes after Trump has posted things on social media just in the past few weeks that target much more prominent people.
He shared a post that depicted various people including Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Kamala Harris, Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates in jumpsuits. He shared a post to his followers that said that the House committee that investigated the January 6th attack on the Capitol should be indicted for sedition. And he said that there should be public military tribunals against former President Barack Obama without explaining what for. So he's been making those threats in recent weeks, and it really follows on him saying for quite a while that he thinks that prosecutions when he's president would be a good idea and basically that it is proper vengeance for the criminal cases that he has faced in the past years.
Taylor Wilson:
Yeah. I want to hear a little bit more, Aysha, about what you've heard from legal and democracy experts on this. Why specifically they feel this is a big problem.
Aysha Bagchi:
In addition to this question of appointing people who are more loyal, there are a couple other considerations that people bring up when they're talking about the idea that this could be a real threat. One of them is the Supreme Court's ruling on July 1st in the presidential immunity case, this was Trump's case where he faces federal election interference charges. And the justices on the Court addressed kind of various issues when it comes to presidential immunity.
But the one area in which the majority of the Court, we're talking about the conservative wing, the six Republican appointed justices, were most clear, is that a president enjoys absolute immunity from prosecution when it comes to his or her communications with senior justice department officials. And that seems to suggest to a lot of experts that when it comes to directing the Justice Department to do things that might have an improper purpose, when it comes to the question of preserving these norms that the Justice Department's investigations are independent from the White House, these are post-Watergate norms, they've been in place for decades, that the Supreme Court's ruling could really jeopardize that kind of standard that has been in place for many years if you have a president who wants to use the Justice Department as a tool of vengeance or as an extension of what they want to accomplish.
And then people also point to Project 2025 or something called Schedule F. These are proposals that haven't at all been just clearly endorsed by Trump. In fact, he's tried to distance himself from Project 2025 in general saying that he doesn't know a lot about it. There may be things he likes and things he doesn't like, but these are proposals that are coming from Trump allies, some of whom were associated with his last administration. And they say things like, there shouldn't be as much independence for the Justice Department from the White House, particularly when it comes to investigative independence. That kind of division shouldn't be in place.
Taylor Wilson:
And Aysha, do any experts defend Trump and his approach on this?
Aysha Bagchi:
I did receive comments from one professor. This is John Yoo. He's a former Justice Department official from the George W. Bush White House, who has written about the idea that retaliatory prosecutions are a good idea. He basically characterized a lot of the prosecutions against Donald Trump as politically motivated or if not politically motivated then as the types of prosecutions that can jeopardize a president's ability to kind of freely go about their job, that they have to make decisions in wartime. They have to make decisions during emergencies. It'll hamper the president's role if the president is concerned about being prosecuted for something that he or she does. John Yoo has called for this idea that Republican prosecutors have to try to find cases and indict Democrats in order to basically prevent this from becoming a pattern when it comes to prosecuting former presidents. So there aren't a lot of people who are endorsing what Donald Trump has said, especially when it comes to legal experts and that kind of community. But he's not without some support.
Taylor Wilson:
And Aysha, have we heard from the Trump camp on some of these criticisms?
Aysha Bagchi:
I eventually heard from the National Press Secretary of the Trump campaign, and she said that Trump believes anyone who breaks the law should be prosecuted to the fullest extent, including anyone who commits election fraud. She didn't mention the prosecution, there are two prosecutions that basically accuse Donald Trump of election fraud himself. One of them is the federal election interference case brought by special counsel Jack Smith. And the other is the Georgia State indictment on 2020 presidential election interference charges.
Taylor Wilson:
All right. Aysha Bagchi covers the Justice Department for USA Today. Thank you Aysha.
Aysha Bagchi:
Thanks Taylor.
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Taylor Wilson:
According to preliminary Nielsen data, 57 and a half million viewers watched Tuesday night's presidential debate between Vice President Kamala Harris and former president Donald Trump. The big question, will that fiery first in person encounter between the two candidates sway November's outcome? Well, if you're watching offshore bettors, it already did, with $750,000 bet in the first 50 minutes of the debate, the odds swung from Trump to Harris on Betfair Exchange, the biggest UK peer-to-peer betting platform. Presidential election betting is not legal in the US. On Polymarket, a crypto trading platform, Trump's and Harris's likelihood of winning were tied at the end of the debate. After moving slightly in Trump's favor yesterday, Polymarket bettors set both Harris's and Trump's odds of winning at 49%.
But did the debate have any impact on actual voters? Reporters for USA Today and its network partners caught up with swing state residents in seven states during and after the Philadelphia debate. The biggest takeaway, Harris was prepared, Trump lost his cool. Read more of their reactions with a link in today's show notes.
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One of the more viral moments from Tuesday's presidential debate came when former president Donald Trump claimed without evidence that Haitian immigrants have been abducting and eating cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio. Trump's comments came amid a heated conversation about Haitian immigration in Springfield. And the father of an 11-year-old boy accidentally killed by a Haitian immigrant is urging the community to stop the hate.
Nathan Clark:
To clear the air, my son, Aiden Clark, was not murdered. He was accidentally killed by an immigrant from Haiti. This tragedy is felt all over this community, the state, and even the nation. But don't spin this towards hate.
Taylor Wilson:
That's Nathan Clark, father of Aiden Clark. Hermanio Joseph, an immigrant from Haiti was driving a minivan and struck a school bus last year. Aiden died after being ejected from the bus and more than 20 other students were injured in the crash. Joseph was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and vehicular homicide and sentenced to between nine and 13 and a half years in prison.
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An anti-DEI or Diversity, Equity and Inclusion activist is targeting LGBTQ+ rights, and some major companies are listening. I spoke with USA Today senior reporter, Jessica Guynn to learn more. Hey there, Jessica.
Jessica Guynn:
Hi Taylor. Thanks for having me.
Taylor Wilson:
So Jessica, would you just start by telling us about Robby Starbuck and his role as a so-called "anti-woke activist".
Jessica Guynn:
Robby Starbuck is an activist who began using his account on social media to call out companies that he says engage in woke business practices that don't align with the views of their mostly conservative customers. And though he is not a household name, he has quickly racked up a string of successes. His first target was Tractor Supply, a rural retail chain where he buys hay, grain and alfalfa treats for the cattle on his Tennessee farm. And as a result of his campaign, Tractor Supply ended its DEI programs. He then moved on to other companies like John Deere, Harley-Davidson and Brown-Forman, which makes Jack Daniel's, all of whom made some concessions in terms of their DEI policies and programs as a result of the scrutiny that he brought.
Taylor Wilson:
Yes. I want to hear a little bit more really about how the major companies are responding here. Are they listening to him? And how does all this build on backlash these companies have already faced?
Jessica Guynn:
Well, he says his is a broader anti-DEI campaign, but he focuses most of his attention on corporate support for LGBTQ+ rights. The Human Rights Campaign in particular is a favorite target, as is its Corporate Equality Index, which ranks companies based on how LGBTQ+ friendly their policies and benefits are.
Taylor Wilson:
Can you help us understand the relationship between corporate America and gay rights? What's the history here?
Jessica Guynn:
Well, for a long time, corporate America was somewhat indifferent or sometimes hostile to LGBTQ+ people and issues. But that's changed in recent decades thanks to lobbying and yes, some protests and boycotts from LGBTQ+ activists. In the last decade or so, it has become a given that corporations would take public stands in favor of gay, lesbian, and trans rights, whether it's supporting gay marriage or opposing laws that restrict transgender people's use of bathrooms. And Robby Starbuck is putting pressure on companies to walk back some of that support. And it's part of a broader backlash that we have seen in some conservative circles against LGBTQ+ issues and people.
Taylor Wilson:
Jessica, you also wrote about the purchasing power that LGBTQ+ people have. Can you talk us through some of these numbers you outline in the piece and what's the greater significance of that?
Jessica Guynn:
Well, older Americans, men, Republicans, tend to view DEI programs unfavorably. And while the majority of Americans still support these programs, there are big pockets of people who do not. Corporations, however, have a vested interest in making sure they appeal to or at least don't alienate LGBTQ+ people. They, as a market segment, have substantial spending power, $1.4 trillion in the United States, and they make up a growing portion of the American population and the workforce. So customers and employees. Today, one in five young Americans identify as LGBTQ+, and that's not all. Corporations also have to take into account the allyship of family members, friends, women, Democrats, younger adults, people of color, far fewer of whom are fans of Tucker Carlson, and Fox News.
Taylor Wilson:
All right, Jessica Guynn is a senior reporter with USA Today. Thank you, Jessica.
Jessica Guynn:
Thanks so much for having me.
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Taylor Wilson:
And today is National Day of Encouragement, a chance to give the folks in your life an extra boost. In 2023, Mississippi Today reporter Anna Wolfe exposed how a former Mississippi governor used his office to steer millions of dollars from a welfare fund to his family and friends. Now she's risking jail time for refusing to reveal her sources. Could the suit persuade other reporters not to dig too deep? Listen, later today after 4:00 PM Eastern time, when Kelly McBride, Ethics and Leadership chair at the Poynter Institute joins my co-host Dana Taylor to discuss the impact of this case on local journalism. You can find the episode right here, wherever you're listening, right now.
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And thanks for listening to The Excerpt. You can get the podcast wherever you get your pods, and if you're on a smart speaker, just ask for The Excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson and I'll be back tomorrow with more of The Excerpt from USA Today.
This article originally appeared on USA TODAY: Trump threatens to imprison political opponents. Experts are worried | The Excerpt
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